Miami Marlins Coach Ozzie Guillen Addresses 5-Game Suspension for Pro-Castro Comments

This is a great point. Baseball managers and coaches that are good at motivating and effectively communicating with their players make a bigger difference in the won/loss ledger than in-game maneuvers they may make. (Basketball has way more in-game adjustments so it becomes a bigger part of the coaches success rate.) So back to my original point--Ozzie Guillen simply is lousy at just about every aspect of managing: setting the lineup, in-game maneuvers including managing the bullpen (esp. managing the bullpen), and motivating players.

 

Wrong again. Everybody hated him for saying it, but Jerry Krause was right when he said, "Players don't win championships. Organizations win championships." Everything has to work together in order to win. This includes having good players, a good manager, good coaches, a good owner, a good medical staff, etc.

List your qualifications all you want, but they don't mean too much to me when I see you say that a World Series winning manager is incompetent. One of the things that a World Series ring says is that the manager isn't incompetent.

 

Of course he's allowed to say it. However, he shouldn't expect to offend his number one fan base and in whose neighborhood your stadium sits and expect to keep his job.

 

IMHO, probably about right. The Marlins organization needed to do something. However, there are plenty of people who believe it didn't go far enough.

 

Or that he's lucky.

 

He obviously did expect to keep his job, because he did keep his job.

 

As a born again Christian, I don't believe there is such thing as luck.

 

Right. That must be it. Winning 99 games in the regular season and going 11-1 in the playoffs was complete luck. Got any other theories to support your flawed narrative?

 

I didn't say it was "complete luck". I said he got lucky. Unless you think he had something to do with Scott Podsednik hitting a game winning walk off HR in Game 2 after not having hit a home run the entire regular season (0 HR in 507 ABs)

Yes, personally watching more than 2 dozen games managed ineptly by Ozzie Guillen over the years.

 

I've seen Tony LaRusa ineptly manage at least that many games over the years. I still think he's one of the best.

 

Oh, it's not complete luck. I see now. It was just plain luck. Because there's such a difference between the two. The White Sox won 99 regular season games that year because the team was good and that includes the manager.

Would you please tell us why the Chicago White Sox kept an incompetent manager for 6 years after he won the World Series? Did Kenny Williams not know that Guillen was just lucky? Or is Kenny Williams incompetent too? If it's just luck, why did the Marlins want him to manage their team? Are the White Sox and Marlins' organizations incompetent?

Instead of clinging to your flawed narrative, maybe you could just admit that you got carried away about being negative about Ozzie and were mistaken in saying that he's incompetent.

 

This has nothing to do with the "luck" argument.... but yes, the Marlins' organization is. Just sayin'.

 

Great quote. Unfortunately, most people just think he is just a good 'ol dictator. The way the m/s media has fawned over him throughout the years is sickening.

 

Wait...an incompetent organization has won TWO world series with vastly undertalented teams, andt he organization is incompetent?
Ha.

Cleveland was a great ball club in 97, and that Yankees team was great, but yet some incompetent (and very young) organization managed to win two world series?


You want an incompetent organization, look at the Reds Ball Club for the better part of the 90's and 2000's. You want an incompetent organization, look at the Bengals.

But two World Champion baseball teams in the last 15 years does not make for an incompetent organization.

 

Who knows? All I know is Guillen is a lousy manager. Why didn't the Sox re-sign him?

Yep, that too. How's that Adam Dunn free agent signing working out for him? How about the Alex Rios acquisition? The Jake Peavy trade? Man, those were smokin' hot moves. Only two of Williams' past 12 years first round draft picks are in the major leagues, never mind being on the White Sox. Gordon Beckham and Chris Sale. Beckham is batting .246/.316/.382 on his three year career. Sale has shown some promise. Williams also hired Robin Ventura to manage his team, a guy with absolutely no previous managerial experience at any level.

Because the Marlins had just built a new stadium, they made a splash in the free market signing some big names, and because there is a huge Hispanic population in Miami that supports the team. Hiring Guillen was a way to reach out to this market segment. [Hint: Managers before Guillen were named Rodriguez and Gonzalez.]

White Sox yes, Marlins, no.

Maybe you should post photos of your Ozzie Guillen shrine so we can all take a look.

 

You haven't demonstrated any such thing. Your "evidence" of being a lousy manager amounts to "he got lucky". I like dealing with facts to support an argument.

Since nobody thought that Adam Dunn would be terrible last year, you don't get to come down on Kenny Williams for signing him now. He'd averaged somewhere around 40 HR every year for at least 3 years prior to joining the White Sox, and everybody thought he'd do the same in the hitter's park that is the White Sox home stadium, so you don't get to condemn the move now as if Kenny Williams should somehow have known that Dunn would have been terrible in 2011. I didn't think the Sox should have signed Rios or Peavy either, but Peavy was a recent Cy Young award winner, so it's a defensible signing.

I'm pretty sure that baseball fans don't go to a game to watch the manager. Have you? I also don't understand why the Marlins needed to hire an Hispanic manager if they already had a Hispanic manager that they could have kept.

Another stupid statement. I don't care how well Ozzie does. What I'm pointing out is that winning a World Series is indicative that he isn't incompetent. It was a really dumb thing for you to say that he's incompetent. I show you facts about how well he did as White Sox manager and you counter with "luck". I can't debate facts vs. luck.

 

Look, I'm not going to dig out my scorebooks of the games I attended when the Twins played the White Sox and post an inning-by-inning description. Nor do I have records of the many games I watched on TV. I do remember a game in late September 2008 I attended when Guillen used closer Bobby Jenks for 3 innings which resulted in the Twins winning the ballgame in the 10th inning.

The White Sox had been in first place that season for most of the year until that crucial series with the Twins in the last week in September. They had come into Minnesota in first place with a week left in the season. The Twins swept them and took over first place. This is the year that the Twins and the White Sox needed to play a decisive Game 163 to determine the winner of the AL Central. Although the Twins had the edge in victories over the Sox during the regular season and should have gotten home field advantage except the rules of MLB (since changed, BTW) call for a coin flip to determine the home team. The White Sox won the coin flip. THIS IS CALLED LUCK. And then they won Game 163 by the score of 1-0, thanks to a solo home run by Jim Thome. THIS IS CALLED THE PLAYERS WINNING THE GAME.

Ken Williams decided to trade Jim Thome late in 2009. Fans clamored for him to sign Thome as a free agent in 2010, but he declined. Williams was set with Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones as DH. The Twins signed Thome and he went on to hit 25 HRs and had an OPS of 1.039

OK, then I blame Ozzie Guillen for trotting Dunn out there everyday. Dunn's batting average went below .200 in mid April and never rose above that level. He ended up hitting .159 on the season, was basically an automatic out and Guillen gave him over 400 ABs.

I watch everything that happens on the field.

Because the previous one resigned.

I've probably seen Ozzie Guillen manage 30 games in the past 5 years or so. I've seen boneheaded moves, wrong personnel decisions over and over again. The man admits he's a drunk, says he loves and respects Fidel Castro, regularly uses profanity during press conferences, calls out players in the press, etc. The guy is an idiot. Yet you want me to believe that although he's incompetent in his personal life and his public life somehow he's got it all together when the baseball game starts?

No, you show me a World Series ring and assume he does well as a manager. Once again I will point out that 2 of those WS games were won by a home run in the late innings. One of them was a walk off HR by a guy that didn't hit a single one in the regular season in over 500 ABs.

 

For the last time...there is no such thing as luck. Can we all stop saying that?

Just because a guy is a good manager, doesn't mean he can't get out managed, or doesn't make mistakes.

Do I need to loan you a shovel?