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Featured Nouthetic Counseling

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, May 5, 2012.

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  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    There has been a couple long threads about "mental illness". I am convinced that the only Christian way to deal with what is being called mental illness is through Nouthetic Counseling.
    If you are not familiar with it you can read about it here;
    http://www.nouthetic.org/nouthetic-counseling/what-is-nouthetic-counseling.html
    I would add this. When I use the term mental illness I am not speaking of those who have become old and loosing their ability to process things, or people who have tumors or in accidents and have brain damage. I am always speaking of those who because of life issues start having difficulty dealing with life or conducting themselves in a controlled manner and I base that belief on scripture.
     
    #1 freeatlast, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2012
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    What amazes me is the multitude of Scripture we are given that deals with practically everything that life throws at us.

    Yet so many would rather discard the Scripture and accept "bandaid" solutions.
     
    #2 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Yes Fred there is no question that the ways of the Lord are growing ever less popular in the church as it continues to turn to the world for answers to lifes problems.
     
    #3 freeatlast, May 5, 2012
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    OK, freeatlast, here's your big chance to convince us all that confronting the sin in people's life is the only way of curing mental illnesses.

    You just said and I have quoted that you believe this is the only way to deal with these problems.

    The link that you provided said that this type of counseling is three-fold: confront, show concern, and change. The reason for change is as follows as I am quoting from the article.

    OK, here we go.

    The woman at my church that I mentioned. She's a Godly believer and demonstrates much faith. She is a diagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic and is bi-polar. She occasionally hears voices and goes through bouts of depression and euphoria. She does get counseling and she takes meds. She sings in the choir, but does not work with children unless as an assistant to a competent leader.

    How would you present this nouthetic-counseling to her? What sins would you confront her about? What in her Christian life is "failing to meet biblical requirements" that has led to her schizophrenia and other mental issues?

    Tell us how pointing out her failures as a Christian will make the schizophrenia go away.

    I believe in competent Christian counseling. I believe in those three things that the article mentioned. I also believe in meds. I believe in faith. I believe in having accountability partners. And I believe in compassion Christians who will confront when necessary and who will comfort and love when necessary.

    I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

     
    #4 Scarlett O., May 5, 2012
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Fred - no one is discarding scripture. Stop acting so passive-aggressively. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #5 Scarlett O., May 5, 2012
  6. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Question: How can one have the mind of Christ when one is souped up on mind altering drugs?

    Did Christ take mind altering drugs? or did He rely on His Father to strengthen Him when the world was pressing? (Hint: see Matthew 26:36-44)
     
    #6 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    My schizophrenic church-sister definitely has the mind of Christ. She is a staunch believer despite the voices that she hears and bouts of depression and mania. She has great faith and relies heavily on God for strength.

    She also relies on meds.

    I don't see how the two are in opposition to each other.

    I take brain-altering drugs. I am on the strongest dose allowable to control seizures. Does it interfere with my thinking sometimes? Yes. Would I be dead without the meds? Yes. Are there side-effects that don't like dealing with? Yes. Do I place my faith in God above all doctors and all meds? Yes. Can I live with meds and still have the mind of Christ? Yes.
     
    #7 Scarlett O., May 5, 2012
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    GOD BLESS YOU & I also like the cookie reference.....I feel the same way about Near Beer!
     
    #8 Earth Wind and Fire, May 5, 2012
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Fred, you do realize that one of the gospels was written by a doctor don't you? He was a Greek and would have used the common herbs, oils, and spices that were used in medicine at the time. Some of them would have had psychotropic properties.
     
    #9 Amy.G, May 5, 2012
  10. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    I hear what you are saying, SaggyWoman, that a person can take mind altering drugs and still have the mind of Christ.

    Now provide some Scripture that tells us we can take mind altering drugs.

    My Bible tells me Casting all your cares on Him for He careth for you.

    So far, no Scripture has been given to prove God approves of mind altering drugs.

    And of course, since no one is able to provide Scripture to prove God approves of mind altering drugs, many resort to ad hominem attacks and nonsense. Doesn't help their stance at all.
     
    #10 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  11. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    I know Luke was a Physician, AmyG. Now, prove to me that he prescribed mind altering drugs to his patients.
     
    #11 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

    1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
     
    #12 Amy.G, May 5, 2012
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Phil 2:5 "let this mind be in you....." is only the introduction of what is being said. It is primarily talking about how Jesus presented Himself; equal with God........

    No man in his right mind makes this claim. We are but sinners redeemed by grace.......we walk as straight as we can, but even we have human short-comings.

    Those with mental incapacities are worthy of treatment, and as the mentally deficient chap at Spurgeon's door said, "I am just a fool and nothing at all, but Jesus Christ is my all and all."

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #13 Jim1999, May 5, 2012
  14. Arbo

    Arbo Active Member
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    You need to check your meds. SaggyWoman hasn't posted on this thread.
     
    #14 Arbo, May 5, 2012
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Well, I don't have his original prescription pad, but common sense and little study of history should satisfy you.
     
    #15 Amy.G, May 5, 2012
  16. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

    As kings, it is not permitted that we drink wine and strong drink.

    Paul's advice to Timothy was not for a mind altering drug, but for a stomach ailment.

    By the way, neither of those passages was written by the Physician Luke. Where's the passage that tells us Luke prescribed mind altering drugs to his patients?
     
    #16 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  17. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Meant Scarlett O.

    Meds had nothing to do wit the mistake. My PC automatically completes some of the names and I guess Saggy's name popped up first.
     
    #17 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
  18. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Fred, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind. I just want you to understand another person's point of view. I believe whole-heartedly in casting our cares upon the Lord. I just don't see how medications are in opposition to that.

    And, no, the Bible doesn't say, "Takest thou tegretal for thy seizures".

    But the Bible also doesn't mention bus ministries, giraffes, Mt. Vesuvius, Tylenol, rubbing alcohol, Vaseline, or Corn Flakes.

    I can't dismiss a viable method of relieving an illness or the symptoms of an illness with medications merely because the Bible doesn't precribe us to.

    I also believe that far too many drugs are out there and pushed by the drug-makers for greed's sake. That's not going to make me dismiss competent doctors and quality and proven meds. It's just going to make me be very careful.
     
    #18 Scarlett O., May 5, 2012
  19. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    My response to many of these objections is that I live in 2012,,,, not OT or NT times.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #19 Jim1999, May 5, 2012
  20. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    If the majority of people today jumped off a cliff to their death, would you say that it the thing to do?

    Maybe we should live in OT or NT times. Modern times sure have replaced many things of God with worldly reasoning excusing sin by blaming it on illnesses.

    Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
     
    #20 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
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