Featured Personal responsibility and mental illness

No, not exactly. The issue is that many mental disorders, just like physical ones, are hard to pinpoint and place in a single category.

This is quite possibly one of the weirdest things I've ever heard.

 

Can you show in Scripture where someone was ill, physically or otherwise, and medicine was used to heal them?

 

It is apparent you do not understand the heart and sin. Sin can be suppressed but still be part of the individual. Just like for some of us it takes a private moment alone with a seductive woman or man before we actually sin, or before someone cuts us off on traffic and shoots us the bird before we blow our stack, or any other scenario that releases what lies within us. It is one thing to suppress the actions of sin, which is what drugs can do, and another to deal with the sin before it can become fruit. I would ask you again do all Alzheimer's patients spit on people and curse them out? As you know the answer is no. The reason is that, that spirit/heart is simply not in all of them to come out.

 

Absolutely!

 

Is it possible that certain men, freeatlast and Steadfast Fred, have "crept in unawares" to wreck havoc on this Forum?:tonofbricks::tonofbricks::tear::tear:

 

jaigner it is weird because you have been being lied to in the church. ...... Stop believing the lies and believe the bible. All sin comes from the heart, from within not from outside sources or an illness.

 

You Owe No One A Reason...

...it is a shame that we live in a day and age where believers think they have a corner on God's truth. If I understand Paul's teaching about a thorn correctly [2 Cor. 12:7-10], some thorns are given to remind us of our limitations and keep us focused on God for our strength.

Your diagnosis of being bi-polar is a thorn that God has given in order to keep you more focused on Him and not on your own abilities.

I can almost predict, that this thorn has drawn you closer to Him, then had you not been given the thorn.

And while there are those who may not like the translation of the Word from the Message Bible, I find this particular passage to hit the nail right on its spiritual head, and commend its teaching to you.

2 Corinthians 12:7-10 - The Message (MSG)

Because of the extravagance of those revelations, and so I wouldn't get a big head, I was given the gift of a handicap to keep me in constant touch with my limitations. Satan's angel did his best to get me down; what he in fact did was push me to my knees. No danger then of walking around high and mighty! At first I didn't think of it as a gift, and begged God to remove it. Three times I did that, and then he told me,
My grace is enough; it's all you need.
My strength comes into its own in your weakness.
Once I heard that, I was glad to let it happen. I quit focusing on the handicap and began appreciating the gift. It was a case of Christ's strength moving in on my weakness. Now I take limitations in stride, and with good cheer, these limitations that cut me down to size—abuse, accidents, opposition, bad breaks. I just let Christ take over! And so the weaker I get, the stronger I become.

Again, according to Scripture, you owe no one an explanation or apology for what God has given to you. If anything, you owe Him, the praise for the ability to live with, and cope with this thorn in such a way that glorifies Him!!!

 

An expert opinion from the Nouthetic school that uses Aristotle's and Plato's belief in dualism as its core principle, requires no competency from its practitioners, no anticipated outcome for its patients, espouses confrontation as a best practice, accepts a self-published reference as its only source for medical credibility and believes leaving a hurting person to lie in their own excrement as bringing glory to God.

That's a dirty little secret you should've kept to yourself. Narcissistic brow beating hidden behind an injudicious application of Scripture is not truth. Exploiting the weak to bolster a personal perception of piety is not counsel.

And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
Colossians 3:12

 

Oldregular if truth wrecks then I would say yes, but what you and some others are suggesting cannot be backed by scripture. It is a matter of believing the bible or not and the bible teaches all sin comes from the heart, not an illness to be cured with drugs.

 

True compassion speaks the truth and does not cover it with drugs and excuses. The only way to be free of a sin is confession and forsaking it not drugs.

 

And some do not like a literal translation;
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's [fn] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. That means they do not go back into sin once freed from it.

 

No one is calling you names Are you juding those who are into homosexuality by calling them a ugly name and think you are better then they and are less a sinner then they? All sin comes from the heart and the only cure is confession and forsakeing not drugs. Drugs mask the real problem. They do not overcome it.

 

As I stated, I have extrapolated from your own posts, and ask the questions that were asked by others.

Below are a few of the statements to show your view and obvious (even to FAL) the extrapolation - though I don't agree with his opening statement to that analysis.

SF: I've yet to see a picture of the mind. Perhaps instead of claiming I am wrong you can provide a picture showing me it is a material thing that can get diseased?

SF: The mind is not a material thing and therefore cannot be diseased.

So while I can safely say there is no lab test to date that can prove mental illness, I can also attest, without reservations, that no future lab test will prove mental illness.

It is impossible to do a lab test on the mind.


Originally Posted by padredurand
"If the mind is immaterial and cannot be tested in a lab nor proven then only one conclusion can be drawn: it does not exist."
FAL: Yes if you cannot or refuse to accept the truth that would be a logical conclusion.
​

At least FAL can see the "logical conclusion" though he does consider such a conclusion a refusal to accept the truth

I will also say that at least FAL states,

"I probably need to add to this. I at no time am suggesting that pills, shock treatment, or counseling is not needed in some peoples lives to keep them from doing harm to themselves or others. ... The bottom line issue is a spiritual issue and needs to be dealt with spiritually. That is the only cure for their problems." (underlined words done for emphasis)​

Frankly, there is little argument over the severely mentally ill in FAL's perspective on the need of medical helps. Extrapolating FAL's view there are situations in which some apparently need help, more at times it would seem than "confession" in which according to FAL is the solution.

However, the question must be asked, if medical aid is available for the most severe of situations, why is it denied to others?

Although SF and FAL are in agreement - look how they disagree!

SF: Mental illness is a myth.

SF: His view of mental illnes? Just as both freeatlast and myself have been saying, it is bogus.

FAL: All mental illness stems from sin.​

SF continues that mental illness is also a fabrication (myth).

SF: Given the fact that the mind is immaterial, (one cannot remove it from the body and hold it in one's hands or put it in a box) it is impossible for the mind to develop an illness.

SF: As I have said, as soon as someone can show me a photograph of a mind, I will change my perspective.

My medical books show every part of the human body, including every area of the human brain. I have not found one picture of a mind any any of my books.

If you can find a picture of a mind, perhaps you can submit it to the AMA and be famous for being the first one to show the world what a mind looks like.

SF: The word mental pertains to the mind, it is not a physical tangible object that one can see, feel, taste, smell or hear.

Being immaterial, it cannot acquire illnesses.

SF: I have no doubt that those who advocate the fabled "mental illness" theory would also be in allegiance with the DSM that diagnoses Samson as having Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

SF: I have never claimed that the mind cannot be affected. I have pointed out the fact that the mind, being immaterial, cannot get sick.

SF: I have yet to see any pictures of a mind that is ill.

SF: There is no scientific proof that the mind can get sick.

SF: You are basing your stance on the belief that the mind can get sick.

Being immaterial, the mind cannot get sick.​

Fred's Wife also enjoys the myth view by posting:

FW: There is NO SUCH THING as a mental illness; It is either a physical problem in the brain (such as a nutritional deficiency) or it is a moral or spiritual problem."

FW: Mental illness is a myth....the mind does not get a "disease" All he is attempted to share is that psychotropic drugs are very addictive and have some very dangerous side effects. He never said anyone was sinning because they took psychotropic (mind altering) drugs...and never told anyone to stop taking their psychotropic medications they are already taking​

I will stop with this following group of posts.

It shows that SF does in fact "encourage" medical advice from non-qualified professionals.

In this case he is stating there is nothing wrong in giving the advice. He is inaccurate. He could suggest other resources, and other medical attention, but to tell a person who is under the medical care of the doctor to not take the medication is in fact not merely unprofessional.

To finish is the statement that he gives that a doctor's ruling is faulty, bringing doubt to the validity of the doctor's diagnosis flat stating the doctor was wrong. Though he had no personal contact with the patient or the medical case.

SF: If people are being given mind-altering drugs, why shouldn't they be told to get off of them?

SF: There is nothing wrong with a pastor telling a person the dangers of psychotropic drugs and why they should be avoided.

SF: But whatever doctor told you that it was caused by chemical imbalance was wrong to tell you that. There are no tests to prove a 'chemical imbalance' in the brain whatsoever. Many leading doctors have stated these facts in medical journals. I am curious how the doctor came to the conclusion that your dad had a 'chemical imbalance'?​

 

annsni, go to youtube and search for The Marketing of Madness.

It is in that video that some of the psychiatrists behind the DSM-IV admit to making up diseases.


I have a copy of the DSM-IV, and can give you the names of all of those repsonsible for framing it. Or you can do a search for DSM-IV.pdf on Google and download it yourself