Isaiah on the "Free Will" of the Unregenerate Man

[OldRegular]

Isaiah 44:13-20
13. The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14. He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17. And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20. He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

 

[InTheLight]

Isaiah 44:13-20
13. The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14. He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17. And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20. He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing free will addressed in this passage. I'm seeing Isaiah saying that the idol worshiper is a dumb person, but that's about it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Isaiah 44:13-20
13. The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14. He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17. And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20. He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

watch out here!
You might mention something also about all of us running away from the good shepard of our souls, something peter also picked up on!

 

[Winman]

What do these verses have to do with free will?

Many people who had worshipped idols repented when they heard the gospel and trusted Jesus.

1 Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Many of the Corinthians had been idol worshipers, but they repented and believed on Jesus.

What does this prove about free will?

 

[Yeshua1]

What do these verses have to do with free will?

Many people who had worshipped idols repented when they heard the gospel and trusted Jesus.

1 Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Many of the Corinthians had been idol worshipers, but they repented and believed on Jesus.

What does this prove about free will?

that apart from the saving work of God, that man will always make up and worship "gods/idols" of their own making?

 

[OldRegular]

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing free will addressed in this passage. I'm seeing Isaiah saying that the idol worshiper is a dumb person, but that's about it.

This man is exercising that much vaunted "free will" that some on this Forum brag about.

 

[OldRegular]

that apart from the saving work of God, that man will always make up and worship "gods/idols" of their own making?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

What do these verses have to do with free will?

Many people who had worshipped idols repented when they heard the gospel and trusted Jesus.

1 Cor 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Many of the Corinthians had been idol worshipers, but they repented and believed on Jesus.

What does this prove about free will?

It shows the fruits of "free will" of the unsaved man that you keep bragging about.

 

[Iconoclast]

This man is exercising that much vaunted "free will" that some on this Forum brag about.

Those sections in Isa40-66 and specifically 41-52...set the stage for the SERVANT OF THE LORD...to come and accomplish redemption for His people.
The absoluteness of His control over all created reality is a great comfort to the sheep...if viewed as a whole picture,and not divided up.He stands unique among all.
Thanks for posting this most excellent portion of scripture.:applause::applause:

 

[saturneptune]

It shows the fruits of "free will" of the unsaved man that you keep bragging about.

One could take phrases like Baals, Ashteropols, other gods in the OT, and in modern day terms, replace it with money, worldly goods, lust, and the like. It is all the same concept, putting other things before the Lord. We just put shiney cars before God instead of ugly wooden statues.

Apart from a touch from the Lord, free will is confined to degrees of evil. If one could compare this to a report card, left in our fallen state, the best we could do is an F+.

 

[MB]

watch out here!
You might mention something also about all of us running away from the good shepard of our souls, something peter also picked up on!

This is typical of Calvinist they take a passage and state that it is about a certain subject, but when a Non Calvinist comes by and reads it. He see's nothing about the subject claimed.
MB

 

[OldRegular]

One could take phrases like Baals, Ashteropols, other gods in the OT, and in modern day terms, replace it with money, worldly goods, lust, and the like. It is all the same concept, putting other things before the Lord. We just put shiney cars before God instead of ugly wooden statues.

Apart from a touch from the Lord, free will is confined to degrees of evil. If one could compare this to a report card, left in our fallen state, the best we could do is an F+.

Well said S/N!:thumbsup::thumbsup: You done got down where the rubber meets the road.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[InTheLight]

One could take phrases like Baals, Ashteropols, other gods in the OT, and in modern day terms, replace it with money, worldly goods, lust, and the like. It is all the same concept, putting other things before the Lord. We just put shiney cars before God instead of ugly wooden statues.

Well said S/N! You done got down where the rubber meets the road

Not really. We're not worshiping shiny cars. We're not relying on shiny cars to perform some earthly favor for us. We're not relying on shiny cars for salvation or forgiveness, or healing. Shiny cars are not the same as false gods.

 

[OldRegular]

This is typical of Calvinist they take a passage and state that it is about a certain subject, but when a Non Calvinist comes by and reads it. He see's nothing about the subject claimed.
MB

I believe that you have identified the problem with "freewillers"; they just do not understand what they read! Isaiah clearly shows the mindset of freewill!

 

[quantumfaith]

This man is exercising that much vaunted "free will" that some on this Forum brag about.

OR, you sure seem to have a "burr in your saddle" when it comes to "free will". Would it be possible for you to disagree with them (us) without casting so much dispersion on the concept?

 

[mandym]

I believe that you have identified the problem with "freewillers"; they just do not understand what they read! Isaiah clearly shows the mindset of freewill!

And yet another prime example of the reason for the affirmations and denials statement.

 

[InTheLight]

I believe that you have identified the problem with "freewillers"; they just do not understand what they read! Isaiah clearly shows the mindset of freewill!

Yep, Calvinists are much smarter than all other people. :BangHead:

 

[OldRegular]

Yep, Calvinists are much smarter than all other people. :BangHead:

Are you trying to start another argument? If so you should start your own thread!

I am thankful though that I am not a Calvinist. They believe in infant Baptism and sprinkling, I believe in Baptism by immersion of believers only.

 

[freeatlast]

Isaiah 44:13-20
13. The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
14. He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
15. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
16. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
17. And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
18. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
19. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
20. He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

God the Holy Spirit, on the free will oif man;
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[OldRegular]

God the Holy Spirit, on the free will oif man;
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The question is who are the "whosoevers"?