You don't even know the Word of God much less believe it.
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Dead Faith as taught by the Apostle James
- Thread starter Moriah
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You don't even know the Word of God much less believe it.
also, remember that paul speaks of us becoming justified towards God by faith in jesus, based upon His atoning death, so speaks to sinners to saints, while james addresses just how a saint should now be living and acting for the lord!
pauls states that a sinner is saved by faith in person/work of Chrsit ALONE, while james states that once saved, needs to show evidence that really happened!
To be drawn by the Father is to "learn" of him:
Jn. 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Your silly response that this was addressed to Jews only would equally apply to almost everything recorded that Jesus said. Hence, according to your logic we would have to discard every single word of Christ because it was ALL addressed to Jews.
Your silly response that this was said while Jesus was on earth would equally apply to EVERYTHING Jesus said because all of it was said while he was on earth.
Your silly response that no Jews could come to him while on earth makes Christ a moron because he constantly invited JEWS to come unto him and not once did he ever attribute their refusal to come to him BECAUSE HE WAS ON EARTH but rather because of their own depraved heart. BESIDES THERE WERE MULTITUDES OF JEWS THAT CAME TO CHRIST WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH - 120 ARE IDENTIFIED IN ACTS 1:15-17. SO YOU ARE WRONG! JEWS DID COME TO CHRIST WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH.
Every single person the Father draws comes to Christ because Christ said "I will raise HIM up at the last day."
Every single person that "learns" of the Father "cometh unto me" - Jn. 6:45.
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As I said, believe whatever lie you choose.
Why would I think I would be treated better than Jesus was? I take it as a compliment that I am abused verbally the same way Jesus was.
Wisdom proves you wrong.
Just think how ignorant a teaching is that says you cannot believe, when the Word of God says believe. Faith comes from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded. Nowhere does the scriptures say God will make us believe in Him.
The Word of God says repent. You say, “I cannot”.
Again, wisdom proves you wrong.
I keep showing you were you are erring, but you do not address it, you go on as if nothing was said.
James says, “Can such a faith save a man?”
No, such a faith cannot save a man.
It is dead faith only to say you believe. It is dead and not the saving kind of faith.
Jesus could respond and never ran from the Word God whereas you avoid response by playing the marty!
Your wisdom is from beneath - James 3
Jesus also says "be ye therefore Perfect" and not by any kind of definition but by His own definition clearly stated "EVEN AS your Father in heaven is perfect."
Tell me Moriah, how perfect is the Father in heaven? Has he ever committed even one sin ever? Has he ever needed to repent and be forgiven any sin at all? That is God's standard OF RIGHTEOUSNESS YOU MUST OBTAIN to enter heaven (Mt. 5:20). Where are you going to find a righteousness like that Moriah????
Just think how ignorant a teaching is that says MY OBEDIENCE can obtain that kind of righteousness????
The point is that we lost our ability to believe or to be sinless when we fell in Adam as by "one man's disobedience MANY WERE MADE SINNERS." Hence, the loss of that ability is our responsibilty not God's.
No, it comes by the "RHEMA" or God's Word of Command (Rom. 10:17) as described in 2 Cor. 4:6. It comes by being drawn by God and having learned of the Father - Jn. 6:44-45.
Go back to sunday school and learn the Bible instead of what you have been taught by your "spiritual" teachers (1 Tim. 4:1b).
That scripture is about people who ALREADY KNEW AND LOVED GOD. THEY were the lost sheep of Israel. They were God’s and God gave them to Jesus.
THEY HAD LEARNED OF GOD BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS WHO LOVED AND OBEYED GOD BEFORE JESUS CAME TO EARTH. THEY ARE DRAWN TO JESUS BECAUSE THEY RECOGNIZE WHAT JESUS SAYS AS GOD’S WORD.
Jesus says when he is lifted up he will draw all men to him. He came first for the Jews.
Even Paul makes this fact known when he says, “but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. “ Romans 2:10
And again here,
Romans 2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
And again,
Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
THE JEWS THAT ALREADY BELONGED TO GOD NOW HAD TO GO THROUGH JESUS FIRST! THEY WAITED FOR HIM TO COME FOR A LONG TIME! THEY OBEYED AND LOVED GOD AND WAITED FOR THE MESSIAH! WISDOM PROVES YOU WRONG REPEATEDLY, FOR WHY WOULD JESUS FIRST COME FOR ANYONE ELSE?
Do I have to keep replying to such ill logic? I have explained this to you repeatedly since I have joined the group in December. You continue as if you never heard the Truth.
From whom did you ever hear the words of God then? You want me to believe no one from the reformed beliefs ever said a word to you about scriptures? It is impossible to say you never were taught by anyone from the reformed group, for they are even teaching you here.
I come to the Bible from a dispy viewpoint, and do hold to the reformed doctrines of grace for salvation, but NOT to their views on eschatology!
Then why did you say, "Never been taught by the reformed, as never been a member in such a church! I am a Christian holding to Dispy baptist views!"?
You are a Calvinist in a Calvinist Church.
i was an elder int he assemblies of God, NOT a calvinistic church, free will arminian group!
In Evangelcial free church, guess what, free will church!
Stony Creek batist church, no formal declaration either arm/cal, as pastor Evangelical arm holding to OSAS, and elders lean DoG!
Then, someone taught you about total depravity...
Jesus, and His apostles!
To Biblicist and Yeshua1,
Tell me, if a man hears the gospel of Jesus Christ, and says he believes, he then calls himself a Christian, and goes to church. He one day reads in the Bible to examine ourselves, to test ourselves, to see if we are in the faith. Upon examination and testing, he just no longer believes he is saved.
What do you say this man should do next then?
Please answer.
Tell me, if a man hears the gospel of Jesus Christ, and says he believes, he then calls himself a Christian, and goes to church. He one day reads in the Bible to examine ourselves, to test ourselves, to see if we are in the faith. Upon examination and testing, he just no longer believes he is saved.
What do you say this man should do next then?
Please answer.
WHy does he feel that he was not really saved?
Did he receive jesus by faith? has he had a change in understanding of his spiritual states before and after that?
if he knows that he has experienced a change, knows the Bible now starts to make sense to Him, wants to live and do what bible says...
Would reassure him tht oper the bible, he was born from above/again, and show him also now part of a lifelong growing in jesus process!
So Jews could not come to him while on earth??? Was Peter a Jew? How about the 120 in Acts 1:15-26? Who were all those who came to John the Baptist confessing Christ - Acts 19:5??
So Jesus was only speaking of jews when he said "NO MAN"? So can you find any words of Christ contained within the gospel that was not addressed to Jews??? Therefore according to your logic nothing in the four gospels addressed to Jews concerns Gentiles, is that right?
So you have one kind of sinner before the cross and another kind of sinner after the cross with another kind of gospel before the cross and another kind of gospel after the cross! One kind of salvation for Jews and one kind for gentiles?
Peter and Paul deny this! They say "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE" between the jew and Gentile in regard to sin or to salvation or to the gospel or the way of salvation (Acts 4:12; 10:43; 26:22-23; Rom. 3:9-23, 27-31; 4:11-12; 16; Heb. 4:2; etc.).
SPIRITUAL death is SPIRITUAL SEPARATION from God and all human beings come into this world SPIRITUAL DEAD and in need of salvation from sin (Rom. 5:12,17-19). In God alone is eternal life - John 17:3. Eternal life is being brought into SPIRITUAL union with God and that requires the continual indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit at ALL TIMES - Rom. 8:8-9.
The Baptism in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost has nothing to do with personal salvation at all but with the divine accreditation and indwelling of a PLURAL "YE" as the New Testament House of God as an INSTITUTION - (1 Cor. 3:16; 1 Tim. 3:15). In every single text leading up to Pentecost those promised the Baptism in the Spirit are PLURALITY in number and all are already water baptized believers that Jesus formed in the New testament congregation and commissioned BEFORE Pentecost and merely accredited and indwelt as an institutional body at Pentecost.
So let me understand you correctly.
Are you saying he examined and tested himself and knows that he is not in
the faith, but you want to convince him he is just mistaken, and that he
really is saved? Is that what you are saying?
no, I was seeing by WHAT basis he concluded was not really saved, as feelings and faith are 2 seperate things!
IF not really been saved, would rexamine verses on how to receive/believe upon jesus and get saved...
If saved but confused, would study the verses that shows thatfaith in jesus saves us, that we have the holy spirit now, and need to trust in the promise of God!
From the LOWER WISDOM by which you operate and believe you have created a hypothetical impossibility.
I will answer you question by a question. How many of those that Jesus said the Father gave him would fail to come to him?
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
How many that come to him shall he cast out?
Jn. 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
How many given him by the Father will he lose?
Jn. 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
In regard to "ALL FLESH" not merely Jewish flesh but "ALL FLESH" unto whom does he give eternal life? including all those who shall believe in Christ through their word
Jn. 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jn. 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Why did he come into the World? Just to save Jews or to save all the elect?
Jn. 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
If he lost a single one he would have failed to do the Father's will.
If he lost a single one he would have lied because he said he would not cast any out nor lose anything but should raise each and every one up to everlasting life at the last day.
1. "ALL Flesh" cannot be restricted to JEWISH flesh.
2. Those who will believe on him through their word cannot be restricted to JEWISH believers as they preached to all nations.
3. John 6:37-40, 44-45 cannot possibly be restricted to merely Jews unless you restrict the resurrection to merely Jews as only those given by the Father are raised up to eternal life among "ALL FLESH".
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