Dead Faith as taught by the Apostle James

[DHK]

Repentance is turning from sins. People are to be sorry for their sins!

Repentance is not feeling sorry for one's sins. Judas felt sorry for his sins too. It didn't do him an ounce of good. It was not repentance.

If you believe repenting and believing are things we are to do, THEN STOP GOING AGAINST ME WHEN I QUOTE THE SCRIPTURES AND TELL OTHERS TO BELIEVE AND REPENT. Stop saying it does not matter what is in our hearts! Stop teaching a dead faith. Stop saying we do not have to be sorry for our sins.

Your definition of repentance is still not the same as mine.
You define it as being sorry for one's sin, but that is a wrong definition. Nowhere does the Bible define repentance as being sorry. Being sorry won't get an unsaved person anywhere. Only Faith in Christ will save him.

 

[Moriah]

Repentance is not feeling sorry for one's sins.

I gave scriptures telling you that repenting is to be sorry for your sins.

re•pent/riˈpent/ https://www.google.com/search?q=def...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Verb: 1. Feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.
2. View or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse.



From Stong’s Dictionary of Bible Words

English

Repent

5162 nacham (19) , to be sorry; to pity, rue
7725 shuwb (3), to turn back; to return
3338 metamellomai (2), to regret
3340 metanoeo (21) to reconsider

Judas felt sorry for his sins too. It didn't do him an ounce of good. It was not repentance.

You want everyone to believe that Judas was sorry for his sin but still did not believe Jesus was the Son of God?

As for you saying Judas' sorrow did not save him, a person has to believe they are forgiven when they are sorry for their sins! Judas did not believe he could be forgiven.

 

[Moriah]

These scriptures speak of people only believing, do you think they were saved?

John 12:42-43 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Read what Jesus says about people who do not acknowledge him before other men.

“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

No scriptures say faith only, except the faith only James speaks about, and it is dead faith, see chapter 2.

Peter began to speak to those at Cornelius’ house, he said, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. See Acts 10:34-35.

Did you see that? God ACCEPTS men who fear him and do what is right. We have to believe and obey.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Did you hear that? God wants everyone to come to repentance.

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that our sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Romans 10:9-10 we are told to confess.

 

[The Biblicist]

These scriptures speak of people only believing, do you think they were saved?

John 12:42-43 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Read what Jesus says about people who do not acknowledge him before other men.

“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

No scriptures say faith only, except the faith only James speaks about, and it is dead faith, see chapter 2.

Peter began to speak to those at Cornelius’ house, he said, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. See Acts 10:34-35.

Did you see that? God ACCEPTS men who fear him and do what is right. We have to believe and obey.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Did you hear that? God wants everyone to come to repentance.

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that our sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

Romans 10:9-10 we are told to confess.

repentance and faith are inseparable graces. Turning from sin is turning to the Savior from sin as there is no other salvation from sin and nothing else to turn to that is away from sin as all righteousness is found in Him alone.

If by "feelings" you mean "love" versus "hate" then repentance is no longer loving darkness and hating the light but loving light and hating darkness.

Faith is coming to the light.

 

[Moriah]

repentance and faith are inseparable graces. Turning from sin is turning to the Savior from sin as there is no other salvation from sin and nothing else to turn to that is away from sin as all righteousness is found in Him alone.

If by "feelings" you mean "love" versus "hate" then repentance is no longer loving darkness and hating the light but loving light and hating darkness.

Faith is coming to the light.

Therefore, you believe the people in John 12:42-43 who would not acknowledge Jesus are saved, even though they did not confess. Even though Jesus says if someone does not acknowledge him before men, he will not acknowledge them before God. Even though Romans 10 says, we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord?

 

[The Biblicist]

Therefore, you believe the people in John 12:42-43 who would not acknowledge Jesus are saved, even though they did not confess. Even though Jesus says if someone does not acknowledge him before men, he will not acknowledge them before God. Even though Romans 10 says, we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord?

I am sorry but your sentence structure makes it difficult to follow what you are trying to say. Can you say another way.

 

[The Biblicist]

Therefore, you believe the people in John 12:42-43 who would not acknowledge Jesus are saved, even though they did not confess. Even though Jesus says if someone does not acknowledge him before men, he will not acknowledge them before God. Even though Romans 10 says, we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord?

Confession is toward men but faith is toward God (Heb. 6:1) and it is faith that justifies you before God (Rom. 4:3, 5-6). If you have believed, then confession, baptism and other good works will be the fruit of that faith working by love.

 

[Moriah]

Confession is toward men but faith is toward God (Heb. 6:1) and it is faith that justifies you before God (Rom. 4:3, 5-6). If you have believed, then confession, baptism and other good works will be the fruit of that faith working by love.

The people in John 12:42-43 believed in Jesus, but the scripture says they would not confess. They believed in Jesus but did not confess. According to the beliefs of many here, those people who believed but did not confess would be saved just for the fact they believed in Jesus.

However, Romans 10 says we must believe AND confess Jesus is Lord, but those in John did not confess Jesus is Lord. The scriptures also say that Jesus says whoever does not acknowledge him before men; Jesus will not acknowledge that person before God. Therefore, with all that evidence against believe only, why do people say they only have to believe? Why do people say believing is repenting?

The scriptures are clear, it is two different things, and we must do both, believe and repent.

 

[The Biblicist]

The people in John 12:42-43 believed in Jesus, but the scripture says they would not confess. They believed in Jesus but did not confess. According to the beliefs of many here, those people who believed but did not confess would be saved just for the fact they believed in Jesus.

I don't believe they were saved just as I don't believe those in John 8 were saved or that Simon in Acts 8 was saved or those who confessed Christ in Matthew 7:21-23 were saved.

The reason is because the faith they expressed fell into the category of either "dead" or "vain" faith.

Vain faith is faith in a wrong or deficient object. In 1 Cor. 15:11-20.

Dead faith is faith that is grounded only in reason but not from the heart (Rom. 10:8). The historical data may be embraced due to a number of factors other than the right motive, which originates from the heart.

Therefore the problem is not with "faith" but with the object of faith and or the motive behind the faith in all of these contexts.

However, Romans 10 says we must believe AND confess Jesus is Lord, but those in John did not confess Jesus is Lord. The scriptures also say that Jesus says whoever does not acknowledge him before men; Jesus will not acknowledge that person before God. Therefore, with all that evidence against believe only, why do people say they only have to believe?

Faith is towards God (Heb. 6:1) while confession is toward men. It is faith "before God" that justifies - Rom. 4:1-3 whereas confession before men is evidential of salvation as is "believe and be baptized" or "believe and....." whatever else God commands for Christians to do.

Why do people say believing is repenting?

Repentance is not faith but repentance is inseparable from faith. You cannot turn from something unless you are turning toward something else. In this case repentance is change from love of sin to hatred of sin which necessarily means one has changed from hate of light to love of light and coming to the light is faith.

 

[Moriah]

I don't believe they were saved just as I don't believe those in John 8 were saved or that Simon in Acts 8 was saved or those who confessed Christ in Matthew 7:21-23 were saved.

The reason is because the faith they expressed fell into the category of either "dead" or "vain" faith.

Vain faith is faith in a wrong or deficient object. In 1 Cor. 15:11-20.

It is dead because they did not combine it with a good action. It is dead because they did not confess.

Dead faith is faith that is grounded only in reason but not from the heart (Rom. 10:8). The historical data may be embraced due to a number of factors other than the right motive, which originates from the heart.

Therefore the problem is not with "faith" but with the object of faith and or the motive behind the faith in all of these contexts.

Therefore, you are against all who say believe only. Therefore, you must know that believing is not also repenting, as others here say.

Faith is towards God (Heb. 6:1) while confession is toward men.

I do not get what you are saying about Hebrews 6:1.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

It is faith "before God" that justifies - Rom. 4:1-3 whereas confession before men is evidential of salvation as is "believe and be baptized" or "believe and....." whatever else God commands for Christians to do.

Abraham obeyed God. No one received a reward before obeying. Noah obeyed and built the ark, then was saved from the flood. He had to do something first. Abraham did not receive the reward of the land until he obeyed and went, that is what scripture says.
We are told to turn to God in repentance. We repent to God. We are told to confess with our mouth. There are things to do to obey.

Repentance is not faith but repentance is inseparable from faith.

That is just not so. There are people who believe in God and Jesus, but they cannot admit they are sinners, or they cannot accept that they can be forgiven.

You cannot turn from something unless you are turning toward something else. In this case repentance is change from love of sin to hatred of sin which necessarily means one has changed from hate of light to love of light and coming to the light is faith.

We still have to obey. We still have to confess. Just believing God did not get the ark miraculously built. Just believing in God did not get Abraham miraculously put in the land he was to receive.

God wanted Abraham to show for himself that he would obey. God KNEW Abraham believed in Him. God KNEW Abraham would offer Isaac to be sacrificed, but God still let Abraham obey as far as Abraham taking Isaac to the altar, even arranging the wood on it. Abraham even went as far as binding his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. God let Abraham obey even to the reaching out his hand and taking the knife to slay his son.

We have to believe AND obey.

 

[The Biblicist]

Therefore, you are against all who say believe only.

I have never believed in faith only. I believe in justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works but evidenced by good works. I believe "faith" as found in this definition has its source of merit and power in grace (Rom. 4:16) and its only object the person and work of Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:24-26; 4:21-25) and that nothing but the works of Christ are included as its object.

Therefore, you must know that believing is not also repenting, as others here say.

I don't believe that repentance IS faith. I believe in regard to GOSPEL repentance and faith that repentance and faith are distinct but inseparable in action as turning from something demands you are turning to something else. For example try to turn around without turning from one direction to another direction. Repentance turns from sin but what does it turn to? It turns to God in the person and work of Jesus Christ for salvation from sin or else it has not turned from sin at all.

I do not get what you are saying about Hebrews 6:1

.

The KJV says "faith TOWARD God." However, confession is "before men." Confession merely relates externally to men what has already occurred with the heart toward God (Rom. 10:8). Baptism is such a confession before men as a person cannot be fit for baptism unless they make a profession of faith so that the administrator knows they are qualified material for baptism. Baptism is a symbolic but public profession of our faith in the gospel of Christ, his death, his burial and resurrection.

However, baptism does not save us literally, but it is the beginning of the salvation of our life or daily life in the service of God. Inward and positonal salvation has already occurred or else it is a lost person, a child of Satan being baptized and serving God.

Abraham obeyed God.

His obedience was in going out from Ur. However, what transpired WITHIN him first to provoke him unto obeying that command? People who obey merely in response to external motivations are not true believers. Abraham first believed the gospel (Gal. 3:6-8; Gen. 12:1 "had" said) PRIOR to obeying God by removing himself from UR. However, you know his obedience was not in keeping with all that he was commanded. He was commanded not merely to leave UR but to leave his kindred and father's house. HE DID NOT DO THAT. Instead he removed to Haran with his whole family. After his father died he was again remined what God "HAD" first told him in Ur (Gen. 12:1). Even then he did not obey God's command but brought kindred with him.

However, he was first justified by faith in Ur when he first received the gospel and then evidenced his faith by his PARTIAL obedience.

Noah obeyed and built the ark, then was saved from the flood.

Noah found "grace in the eyes of the Lord" previous to building the ark, previous to the flood. He was justified by faith before he built the ark and before the flood as those acts of obedience manifested his faith in God rather than produced his faith in God. He did not work in order to believe, but he worked for God BECAUSE he already believed and not merely so but was called a "preacher of righteousness" BEFORE the flood. Hence, "saved by water" was a TYPE of salvation and PHYSICAL rather than literal spiritual salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

I gave scriptures telling you that repenting is to be sorry for your sins.

re•pent/riˈpent/ https://www.google.com/search?q=def...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Verb: 1. Feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.
2. View or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse.



From Stong’s Dictionary of Bible Words

English

Repent

5162 nacham (19) , to be sorry; to pity, rue
7725 shuwb (3), to turn back; to return
3338 metamellomai (2), to regret
3340 metanoeo (21) to reconsider




You want everyone to believe that Judas was sorry for his sin but still did not believe Jesus was the Son of God?

As for you saying Judas' sorrow did not save him, a person has to believe they are forgiven when they are sorry for their sins! Judas did not believe he could be forgiven.

Biblical repentance is when someone agrees with God that his good works cannot save him, its basically changing from getting saved by myself, good works being better acting, to realising that ONLY jesus can save me, and place faith in him then to have His death and life actually save me!

 

[Moriah]

Biblical repentance is when someone agrees with God that his good works cannot save him,

Repentance is feeling sorry for one’s sins. The Bible does not say repentance is agreement about good works not saving anyone.

its basically changing from getting saved by myself, good works being better acting, to realising that ONLY jesus can save me, and place faith in him then to have His death and life actually save me!

The Jews had a part in paying for their sins in the Old Testament; they also had ceremonial practices to clean themselves before worshiping God. IN JESUS, WE DO NOT HAVE A PART IN MAKING OURSELVES CLEAN, FOR JESUS DOES IT FOR US. That does not mean we do nothing for God to choose us! The Bible says God chooses us, and I just like to talk about it with others who might care about knowing God better.

 

[DHK]

Repentance is feeling sorry for one’s sins. The Bible does not say repentance is agreement about good works not saving anyone.

Why do you believe a lie, and post something you cannot prove from the Bible?

 

[Moriah]

I have never believed in faith only. I believe in justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works but evidenced by good works. I believe "faith" as found in this definition has its source of merit and power in grace (Rom. 4:16) and its only object the person and work of Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:24-26; 4:21-25) and that nothing but the works of Christ are included as its object.

You believe that a person does not, and cannot believe. You believe a person cannot, and does not obey. In the scriptures, I read God says to believe. With your beliefs, I hear you say no, we cannot. I read in the scriptures God says obey. I read you say no, it is impossible.
I read in the Bible faith comes from hearing the word. I hear you say faith comes from being saved.

I don't believe that repentance IS faith. I believe in regard to GOSPEL repentance and faith that repentance and faith are distinct but inseparable in action as turning from something demands you are turning to something else. For example try to turn around without turning from one direction to another direction. Repentance turns from sin but what does it turn to? It turns to God in the person and work of Jesus Christ for salvation from sin or else it has not turned from sin at all.

Well, you are speaking from the view that a person is already saved, by a person who has done nothing to be chosen. However, I read in the Bible to believe, repent, and you then you will be saved. .

The KJV says "faith TOWARD God." However, confession is "before men." Confession merely relates externally to men what has already occurred with the heart toward God (Rom. 10:8). Baptism is such a confession before men as a person cannot be fit for baptism unless they make a profession of faith so that the administrator knows they are qualified material for baptism. Baptism is a symbolic but public profession of our faith in the gospel of Christ, his death, his burial and resurrection.

I read in Romans 10 that believing and repenting our two different things required by God. That to confess openly that Jesus is Lord, also to confess our sins to God.
I read in the Bible that water baptism is a pledge we make to God.
I read in the Bible that if one is already saved and has the Holy Spirit, water baptism does not fall long behind. I do not get from the scriptures that the one saved wants to wait or put off the water baptism, nor does the baptizer. This is what I see from the Bible.

However, baptism does not save us literally, but it is the beginning of the salvation of our life or daily life in the service of God. Inward and positonal salvation has already occurred or else it is a lost person, a child of Satan being baptized and serving God.

There are people in the Bible who have been water baptized first before receiving the Holy Spirit.

His obedience was in going out from Ur. However, what transpired WITHIN him first to provoke him unto obeying that command? People who obey merely in response to external motivations are not true believers.

I do not see that in the scriptures. Could you show some scriptures that say that? I read from the scriptures that if a man just wants to know if what the gospel teaches is true, those who want to know if it is God's word or man's word, that all they have to do is obey and they will find out for themselves. The motive of just wanting to know is even an accepted motive.

Abraham first believed the gospel (Gal. 3:6-8;

This is about Scripture FORESEEING that God WOULD justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in ADVANCE. That does not mean it was the way already, for circumcision came, and the Law of Moses came, to hold us until Jesus.

Gen. 12:1 "had" said) PRIOR to obeying God by removing himself from UR. However, you know his obedience was not in keeping with all that he was commanded. He was commanded not merely to leave UR but to leave his kindred and father's house. HE DID NOT DO THAT.

The scripture says he OBEYED AND WENT. If you want to make a case against the scripture saying that, then do it in a new thread. I only go by the scripture. Paul said, “By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.” Hebrews 11:8

Noah found "grace in the eyes of the Lord" previous to building the ark, previous to the flood.

Noah was a righteous, and blameless. This shows that God chooses people who obey.

 

[Moriah]

Why do you believe a lie, and post something you cannot prove from the Bible?

God does not accept repenting if you are not sorry and want to stop sinning. I have shown you scriptures.

 

[DHK]

God does not accept repenting if you are not sorry and want to stop sinning. I have shown you scriptures.

There is not one Scripture you have ever shown me where God requires anyone to be sorry for their sins in order to be saved--never!!

 

[Moriah]

There is not one Scripture you have ever shown me where God requires anyone to be sorry for their sins in order to be saved--never!!

What you say is not true. Repent means to be sorry. You need to prove repent does not mean to be sorry, which you cannot ever do.

God did not like the offerings from the Jews who sinned, those who gave sin offerings, and were not sorry! Those are the type of Jews who were cut off! This is a reason why we can now be saved by faith and not works like sin offerings!

You teach people that they can be like the Jews who sinned, gave sin offerings, but were not sorry for their sins! YOU TEACH PEOPLE TO MAKE A RIGHTEOUS ACT OF CONFESSING BUT TO TURN IT INTO A FILTHY RAG.

 

[DHK]

What you say is not true. Repent means to be sorry. You need to prove repent does not mean to be sorry, which you cannot ever do.

God did not like the offerings from the Jews who sinned, those who gave sin offerings, and were not sorry! Those are the type of Jews who were cut off! This is a reason why we can now be saved by faith and not works like sin offerings!

You teach people that they can be like the Jews who sinned, gave sin offerings, but were not sorry for their sins! YOU TEACH PEOPLE TO MAKE A RIGHTEOUS ACT OF CONFESSING BUT TO TURN IT INTO A FILTHY RAG.

No one here agrees with you. Many have already defined repentance for you, and you don't listen. It is as if you are unteachable.

You say that repentance is "being sorry for your sins."
Now you say I have to prove it isn't. LOL.
No, if you say it is being sorry for your sins, then the onus is on you to prove that that is what Scripture teaches. But you can't. You can't because Scripture doesn't teach that. It doesn't matter if one is sorry for their sins or not.
Salvation is by faith in Christ. What gets a person to heaven is whether or not they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior, not whether or not they are sorry for their sins.

 

[Moriah]

No one here agrees with you. Many have already defined repentance for you, and you don't listen. It is as if you are unteachable.

You say that repentance is "being sorry for your sins."
Now you say I have to prove it isn't. LOL.
No, if you say it is being sorry for your sins, then the onus is on you to prove that that is what Scripture teaches. But you can't. You can't because Scripture doesn't teach that. It doesn't matter if one is sorry for their sins or not.
Salvation is by faith in Christ. What gets a person to heaven is whether or not they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior, not whether or not they are sorry for their sins.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repent

I HAVE PROVEN REPENT MEANS TO BE SORRY. I HAVE PROVEN THIS FOR ENGLISH, HEBREW, AND GREEK. IT MEANS THE SAME IN ALL LANGUAGES.