Featured Why don't Baptists believe in the literal interpretation of the ENTIRE Bible?

The Bible is the FINAL authority not the ONLY authority.

Your interpretation of the Bible has only existed since the 1500's. I am asking you to show me historical proof that it existed in the early centuries of the Church. Your insistence that only the Bible matters, is proof that Baptists cannot prove that their interpretation of the Bible existed anytime before the Anabaptists, and possible the Waldensians and Albigensians.

If Christians in the first two or three centuries really believed like Baptists there has to be SOME proof of it somewhere!

To continue to just spout off Bible verses and act like historical evidence does not matter is, I'm sorry to say, very ignorant.

 

Here are the Lutheran doctrines of Justification and Baptism

We receive the Holy Spirit by the power of God's Word alone.
We are saved by the power of God's Word alone.

But when does God choose to use the power of his Word to save us and to give us the Holy Spirit? When we decide to be saved or when he decides we will be saved?

Lutherans do not believe that any sinner has ever made a free will decision to be saved. According to the Bible the sinner is spiritually dead. God chooses whom and when to save. (See the second chapter of Colossians and Ephesians).

Lutherans and most orthodox Christians believe that God chooses to save us by the power of his Word in two circumstances:

1. When a non-believing adult hears/reads the Gospel and believes.
2. When the Word of God is spoken during infant baptism.

God always does the saving, not something man does. Our decision to be baptized does not saves us. Praying a prayer does not save us. God ALWAYS saves us by the power of his Word, at the time of his choosing, not ours.

God predestined and elected us to be his children before the world existed. Then, sometime during our lifetime, at his choosing alone, He quickens us to be spiritually alive. Once we are spiritually alive, God gives us the gifts of faith, belief, repentance, and eternal life. None of these actions are performed by the sinner of his own free will because according to the second chapters of Colossians and Ephesians, the sinner is spiritually dead. Dead men cannot believe, have faith, or repent.

Salvation is 100% a gift from God. He does it all! We are only passive participants to his saving action.

We do not do good works to be saved. We do not say special prayers to be saved, whether it is the Rosary or the Baptist/evangelical "Sinnner's Prayer".

This is why Lutherans and many other orthodox Christians believe that salvation can occur in two different situations:

1. When an adult hears the Word and believes.
He is saved the moment he believes. He doesn't have to wait to be baptized to be saved. If he dies without being baptized he will go to heaven.

2. Acts chapter 2 promises salvation to the children of believers.
In the Great Commission we are told to baptize all nations. There is no age restriction. Therefore Lutherans and other orthodox Christians baptize our children believing that God will use the power of his Word, spoken at baptism, to save/regenerate our children. It's not us doing anything that saves us. We are only following God's command to baptize them. It is God who does the saving, and He alone, in baptism. Magic words, magic water have no power. God's Word has incredible, supernatural power.

Was it the water that healed Naaman in the OT or was it the power of God's Word?

Remember believing and repenting are not acts of man, but acts of God. The sinner is spiritually dead, remember? So if God gives belief and repentance to the sinner, who can deny that God has the power to give faith, belief, and repentance to the infant?

Orthodox Christians have supporting historical evidence. For instance, the Christians in the catacombs of Rome were baptizing their infants. This is before the state church was established by the Roman Emperor Constantine. The Church was not yet apostate but yet Christians were baptizing their infants all over the Roman Empire. There is no record of any schism in the Church over this issue.

The idea of adult-only baptism is a European invention during the second millenium after Christ.

For more information on the Lutheran doctrines of Baptism and Justification and many scripture verses to support them go to:
http://www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com

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Here are the Lutheran doctrines of Justification and Baptism

We receive the Holy Spirit by the power of God's Word alone.
We are saved by the power of God's Word alone.

But when does God choose to use the power of his Word to save us and to give us the Holy Spirit? When we decide to be saved or when he decides we will be saved?

Lutherans do not believe that any sinner has ever made a free will decision to be saved. According to the Bible the sinner is spiritually dead. God chooses whom and when to save. (See the second chapter of Colossians and Ephesians).

Lutherans and most orthodox Christians believe that God chooses to save us by the power of his Word in two circumstances:

1. When a non-believing adult hears/reads the Gospel and believes.
2. When the Word of God is spoken during infant baptism.

God always does the saving, not something man does. Our decision to be baptized does not saves us. Praying a prayer does not save us. God ALWAYS saves us by the power of his Word, at the time of his choosing, not ours.

God predestined and elected us to be his children before the world existed. Then, sometime during our lifetime, at his choosing alone, He quickens us to be spiritually alive. Once we are spiritually alive, God gives us the gifts of faith, belief, repentance, and eternal life. None of these actions are performed by the sinner of his own free will because according to the second chapters of Colossians and Ephesians, the sinner is spiritually dead. Dead men cannot believe, have faith, or repent.

Salvation is 100% a gift from God. He does it all! We are only passive participants to his saving action.

We do not do good works to be saved. We do not say special prayers to be saved, whether it is the Rosary or the Baptist/evangelical "Sinnner's Prayer".

This is why Lutherans and many other orthodox Christians believe that salvation can occur in two different situations:

1. When an adult hears the Word and believes.
He is saved the moment he believes. He doesn't have to wait to be baptized to be saved. If he dies without being baptized he will go to heaven.

2. Acts chapter 2 promises salvation to the children of believers.
In the Great Commission we are told to baptize all nations. There is no age restriction. Therefore Lutherans and other orthodox Christians baptize our children believing that God will use the power of his Word, spoken at baptism, to save/regenerate our children. It's not us doing anything that saves us. We are only following God's command to baptize them. It is God who does the saving, and He alone, in baptism. Magic words, magic water have no power. God's Word has incredible, supernatural power.

Was it the water that healed Naaman in the OT or was it the power of God's Word?

Remember believing and repenting are not acts of man, but acts of God. The sinner is spiritually dead, remember? So if God gives belief and repentance to the sinner, who can deny that God has the power to give faith, belief, and repentance to the infant?

Orthodox Christians have supporting historical evidence. For instance, the Christians in the catacombs of Rome were baptizing their infants. This is before the state church was established by the Roman Emperor Constantine. The Church was not yet apostate but yet Christians were baptizing their infants all over the Roman Empire. There is no record of any schism in the Church over this issue.

The idea of adult-only baptism is a European invention during the second millenium after Christ.

For more information on the Lutheran doctrines of Baptism and Justification and many scripture verses to support them go to:
http://www.LutherWasNotBornAgain.com

 

Your above statements are very reasonable and logical. You seem very intelligent and well versed. You probably have a stronger background in hermeneutics/soteriology. I have none. I am a layman. I have no theological training. In a debate, you would probably win.

If I put a Lutheran pastor up against you, I think there would be a different outcome.

So here is the bottom line: Baptists and orthodox Christians have been debating over the doctrine of baptism for hundreds of years. You and I could continue debating, but if no one has won this arguement yet, I don't think you and I are going to settle it either.

So how could we determine who is right? Can either one of us be 100% sure that our position is correct. I don't think so or this issue would have been resolved long ago.

I've heard some Baptists say that the way that they know that they are right is because the Holy Spirit tells them so. Do you feel that you are right because the Holy Spirit tells you in your heart that your interpretation of the Bible is correct? If so, I have a question for you?

How do you know that the voice inside of you telling you that your interpretation is correct is the Holy Spirit? Maybe it's just you! Maybe its just your ego talking. Or worse, maybe it is Satan or one of his demons that is speaking to you.

So if there is a dispute over Scripture and its meaning, where do we go to settle it? We go the people who learned the true meaning from the Apostles who learned it from Christ. Go to the writings of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of the disciples of the Apostles.

Under the thread entitled "Is there any historical evidence that supports the Baptist position on Baptism" another Christian as listed numerous statements by early Christians. I encourage you to read it.

On my blogsite, I have these quotes and quotes of other early Christians who give support that Baptism is not our act, but God's act. Go to: http:www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com and look up the posting titled "Baptism Texts".

If you have any statements from early Christians who support your view, please share them with us.

 

Please answer this question: How do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is correct?

--reason and logic tell you that you are correct?
--a voice inside you tells you that you are correct? You believe it is the Holy Spirit.
--your pastor tells you that you are correct?
--your parents told you that you are correct?