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Featured Down syndrome and baptism

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by 33ad, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    I know the age of reason according to baptism tradition is some were between 8-13. What happens if a child that is handicapt never reaches the age of reason
     
    #1 33ad, Aug 9, 2012
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We practice believers Baptism...
    is the child able to understand enough to receive jesus as their Saviour?

    As water baptism in itself does NOT save us, would say that he would notbe baptised!
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Aug 9, 2012
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    The handicapped child (this post suggested mental deficiency) I would baptize them without too much challenge. If they simply said they "believed, and wanted to be baptized". They face enough challenges in life without me adding another.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #3 Jim1999, Aug 9, 2012
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I was assuming they did not have the means to state they did belive in jesus though!
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Aug 9, 2012
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    My sister in law has Downs. She's 43, but operates at the level of a +/- 10 year old. (And you know how smart a 10yo is) Our problem with her is she has rarely been asked about spiritual matters. So, over the course of time my wife (her sister) and I have been trying to get her to communicate. We are fairly confident about her salvation. But she doesn't think baptism has anything to do with her. Baptism is for other folks. It's just a matter of time before she connects the dots.
     
    #5 Squire Robertsson, Aug 9, 2012
  6. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady New Member

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    We have two profoundly handicapped men/children in our church. Michael is 45 years of age but has a mental age of around 10. Stevie is 46 years of age but has the mental age of around 6....so doctors say. Michael speaks...sort of. He is very difficult to understand HOWEVER, there is no difficulty in understanding that HE knows Jesus and loves Him. (Just watch him "sing" Jesus Loves Me, or Saved! Saved!) Stevie can not speak, can not move, can do nothing at all for himself. BUT you KNOW he understands everything going on around him. He smiles, he laughs, he sings (in his way) along with the music ...and if we sing a song he doesn't like he lets us know! He'll even AMEN along with others, in his way.

    Do these two know Jesus? Absolutely, I believe it with all my heart. Will these two stand before Christ in perfect, glorified minds and bodies? I believe they will.

    We should never underestimate what God is able to do, how God is able to communicate with the hearts of even those most profoundly handicapped, for God deals with the heart and can reach even those who can not speak for themselves.
     
    #6 DiamondLady, Aug 9, 2012
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    You mentioned Down's Syndrome children specifically. The children and adults that I know with Down's Syndrome, with the exception of one, are bright and quite capable of reason.

    My own brother, who is 49 with an I.Q. of 73, is quite capable of reason and has been for a long time. He made a profession of faith to the Lord when he was 13. He reads his Bible daily. Does he understand it all? I doubt it. Does he get confused in "real life" sometimes? Yes. Does he understand that he is a sinner and that God's gift via the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ saves all who come to Him? Yes. That's not a difficult concept.

    What about those are are profoundly retarded? Those whose I.Q. are 30 and 40 or worse? Those who are adults and still wear diapers, have to be fed, and can harm themselves easily because they never develped passed a 2-year-old.

    I am of the opinion that God's grace and mercy will save them. It's His business. Now - there will be others who will come here and tell you that they are hell bound. That's their choice to believe that. You'll have to make your own choice.

    But know this. The majority of mentally challenged people ARE capable of understanding the gospel.
     
    #7 Scarlett O., Aug 9, 2012
  8. mont974x4

    mont974x4 New Member

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    I don't see how we can make a blanket policy here. In reality they are like everyone else. We take such things on a case by case basis. As a pastor I would meet with the family and get the parents really involved in the decisions, and even the process.
     
    #8 mont974x4, Aug 9, 2012
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Is there a published source for the "Baptist Tradition" of the age of reason being 8-13. I think lots of children are water baptized in the 5 to 7 range.

    On the other hand, I think Sunday School material should prepare a child for receiving the gospel, but direct presentation and challenge should be presented at the Middle School level and above.

    Lots of folks who were water baptized as a youngster "re-commit" and are baptized again as a young adult, after they come to an awareness of what living for Christ every day really entails, i.e. the difficulties, ridicules, and demonic attacks. But we still sing Jesus loves Me in our heart of hearts. :)
     
    #9 Van, Aug 10, 2012
  10. mont974x4

    mont974x4 New Member

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    All 4 of my sons became Christians at a young age, as did I. I think 5 is the average in our family. I think the Gospel should be presented early and often, and in an age appropriate manner. We don't need a 5 year old to say propitiation. These things need to be put in language they can understand. If they "get it" at an early age then ask them to make a decision.

    And still, we keep focused on the Gospel. As they grow, and we grow, we build on that and we teach biblical terms. Time and again Paul, and Peter, restate the Gospel in the letters they wrote. It was reminding the Church of who Christ is, what He did, and who they were in Christ...and how that should be lived out in their daily lives.
     
    #10 mont974x4, Aug 10, 2012
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Baptism video, Shepherd's Church, Union Grove, WI

    http://baptistbulletin.org/?p=12700

     
    #11 Jerome, Aug 10, 2012
  12. Arbo

    Arbo Active Member
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    "But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." -Matt.19:14.
     
    #12 Arbo, Aug 11, 2012
  13. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    How do you reconcile this

    Acts 2:38
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    38*Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    It doesn't say everyone of you except the mentally challenged ??
     
    #13 33ad, Aug 12, 2012
  14. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    Romans 6:3-4
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    3*Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4*Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Or that mentally challenged will not be baptized unto Christ as above states.

    I believe the bible says these challenged people need to be baptized !!
     
    #14 33ad, Aug 12, 2012
  15. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    These poor people will never be baptized in the new covedent replacing circumcision You are denying them the graces they need!

    Colossians 2:11
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    Not Legalism but Christ

    11*In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[a] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
     
    #15 33ad, Aug 12, 2012
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Who said we are denying a proper candidate the ordinance of Believer's Immersion (Baptism)? We just don't hold that Baptism=Immersion.

    FAIR WARNING
    If you want to argue that last sentence this is not the forum to do it in.
     
    #16 Squire Robertsson, Aug 12, 2012
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    33ad, you asked in your original post what happens to mentally challenged people who cannot formulate an understanding of the gospel.

    EVERY response you got explained that so many of these people CAN and DO understand the gospel and ARE baptized.

    Ah, but I see now that you had no intention of discussion the spiritual status of the mentally challenged. We ALL answered you that we DO baptize these people just like we baptize all other believers.

    But that really isn't what you wanted to discuss, I see. You wanted to make a case of infant baptism/non-believer's baptism by sneaking in through the back door and pretending to want to discuss the needs of preaching the gospel to the mentally challenged.

    You have now made the claim that we do NOT offer baptism to these people after two pages of us telling you that we do.

    Bad form, brother. And that's me speaking to you as the sister of a mentally challenged man who WAS baptized when he was 13. I resent you pretending to show concern for my brother and all mentally challenged people and just trying to weasel in a defense of infant baptism/non-believer's baptism by claiming that we are denying the mentally challenged a baptism.

    My advice to you?

    The next time you make an original post - just spit out - up front and plain for everyone to see - what it is you wish to discuss.
     
    #17 Scarlett O., Aug 12, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  18. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    No my point is a baptist preacher is acting as God randomly picking there age of reason. Some say 5 others say 8 while still more say 13 while some more say a verbal "I believe" for handicapt while still more say a nod of the head.

    The devil loves choas this sounds like a mess of individual interpatation
     
    #18 33ad, Aug 12, 2012
  19. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Can you cite for me some Baptist preachers who claim that there is a magic age? I have been a Baptist for 40 years and I've never heard that at all.
     
    #19 Scarlett O., Aug 12, 2012
  20. Ryan.Samples

    Ryan.Samples New Member

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    I also have never heard someone proclaim in any of my congregations that X is the definite age of accountability. A citation of sources is indeed needed at this point in the discussion.
     
    #20 Ryan.Samples, Aug 12, 2012
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