Featured The Signs of the End of the Age

Interesting you bring this up. I read on the news the other day about a certain g@y Jewish group, and was shocked. I shouldn't have been. Israelites are human and sinful just like the rest of us.

 

We are suppose to take a stand against immorality and evil whether it is 1912 or 2012. Nations do not repent, individual sinners do. When a majority of people of a nation take a stand against the Lord, He may choose to punish that nation. I see no evidence in Scripture that the church is going to be "raptured out."

 

An examination of history shows that there were periodic revivals in America and Europe. We've had at least three events labeled as Great Awakenings in our country, marked by the conversion of thousands of people across denominational lines.

The remarkable thing is that these revivals seem to have been "poured out" rather than "worked up." That is, they were a sovereign act of God. We find them not only in America, but also in Scotland, England, Wales and into Europe.

I'm not aware of any such widespread revivals going on today (in fact, we're going the other way), but I pray that God will be merciful and pour out his spirit again.

And, I agree with saturneptune regarding the Rapture. Matthew 24 is post-tribulational. No pre-trib rapture there.

Or anywhere.

 

No Rapture????

You guys are kidding ...right?....or have ya'll simply snipped 1 and 2 Thessalonians out of your Bibles? Those epistles were written in belief of a "catching away" in their day which we are obviously still awaiting in God's good timing. Our duty is to be witnessing, waiting, watching, and obediently living holy,pure,godly lives as outlined in Titus chapter 2. Just because the word "rapture" is not used in scripture does not mean such an event won't happen. I thank God I live in the good hope that it will. It motivates me to serve my Lord even more. I feel genuinely sorry for any believer that has been misled into believing that there is no hope of this blessed event. I mean none of you any ill will....I simply disagree with you.

Bro.Greg

 

Just to clarify, He is not saying there is no rapture...He is saying he doesnt' think the rapture will deliver all believers BEFORE the hardship of the tribulation. (if you think there is a literal 7 year tribulation, which many don't).

 

Yes, that's what I was saying, although I am not settled on whether the Tribulation is a full literal seven years.

Our discussion here is not the fact of the rapture--it's the timing. I Thess 4 does not tell us that it's pre-tribulational. Nor does I Thess 5.

In fact, scriptures which do clearly outline the timing are all post-tribulational, such as Matthew 24.

I have yet to find a single clear, unmistakable not-subject-to-any-other-interpretation scripture verse which plainly teaches a pre-trib rapture.

 

Bro. Greg, we may not see the end times the same way, but I heartily agree with you that we should be about the Father's business. Our motivation should be to serve the Jesus of the coming, not the coming of Jesus.

In fact, we should be about the Father's business as if he's never coming back.

 

No one has snipped one letter out of my Bible. What you think 1 and 2 Thes means does not make it doctrine or fact. It is really not an issue that makes one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things. For the first thirty years of my life, I basically believed in the Rapture based on Hal Lindsey books. When our pastor at the time challanged us to find a Scripture to prove beyond a doubt that the rapture was going to happen, no one could. For every rapture theory you can come up with on verses such as "in the twinkling of an eye" or "we shall be with the Lord forever", I can come up with just as good of a post trib or amil argument, and no one can prove anything. That goes for Rev 4:1 also, come up hither.

Noah has always been used as a comparison for example. Did the Lord take Noah out of the flood, or did He sustain them through it?

Actually, in reality, your theory has been around no longer than 200 years if that.

Having said all of that, it is the desire of my heart that you are correct.

 

Bro.Tom...

Bro.Tom...YES...and AMEN! That said.....I am a dispensationalist (not hyper thank you) The good question about Matt.24 would be, WHOM was our Lord addressing here...The New Testament Church (which was yet to exist at that time) or the Nation of Israel and law-keeping Jews (which were His audience at the time? It would probably make a huge difference in the interpretation of this passage...don't you think?

As to the pre,mid,post-trib discussion and which one is right...well...I'm no theologian nor the son of one:laugh: and I do lean strongly (and hopefully)toward the pre-trib rapture position. However, I for one do not in any way believe that today's version of the New Testament Local OR Universal Church (and I believe in BOTH) could in any way shape or form EVER deserve a "free-pass"(as some view the "rapture")from some possibly well deserved "suffering" of the type such as noted in sources such as Foxe's Book of Martyrs and more currently by organizations such as Voice Of The Martyrs in our day. We are certainly deserving of it for our luke-warmness in this current Laodician age. I pray God will have mercy on us but that is His business...not ours. We as Americans have been spoiled into complacency and I believe that we will pay for that in some measure before God takes us home. I just don't know the time frame. That said, I can say that I see nothing AT ALL in scripture that would support any kind of post-trib view....in my humble opinion. Gotta go meet my preacher for some fellowship...ya'll have a nice afternoon!

Bro.Greg:type:

 

I imagine some will still be talking about this 100 & 200 years from now.

 

Just not us, unless they find a cure for heart disease.

 

Wait for it......WAIT for it......

Or less...:laugh:......maybe today...or maybe even tomorrow,etc., etc.raying:

Bro.Greg

 

Couldn't have said it better myself, S/N.

 

A true revival/awakening must be a Sovereign Act of God. Perhaps the reason there have been none lately is that folks were trying to work them up!

 

Not really.

 

The so-called Rapture supposedly means a "snatching away" of the Church; that is, taking the Church out of the world prior to the so-called "great tribulation". Scripture tells us there will be a general resurrection of all the dead and judgment of those who died in unbelief.

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Hard to ignore the clear teaching of those Scripture though many are determined to do so!

 

the Church snatched away when jesus returns, we are judged at bhema seat of christ, awarded/glorified, reign with jesus during Millinium...

general resurrection of JUST the lost at end of that Messianic Age, as ONLY sinners raised uop at that time!

 

I have acquired an IT contract (software engineering is my work) and haven't had a strong presence lately but I would like to chime in on this thread.

As trinitarians a statement such as

"I see no evidence in Scripture that the church is going to be "raptured out."

is not very convincing because the opponents of trinitarianism say similar things about us (unless of course one views 1 John 5:7 as having apostolic authority - which I do).

So its all in the interpretation of First and Second Thessalonians - whatever the case we will meet Him "in the air" at the appropriate time.

Also in the case of certain of Jesus statements concerning the coming of the Son of Man He likens it to the days of Noah and also to the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The focus of that account of His coming is that a remnant identified as the people of God (Noah and Lot) are delivered from the wrath of God which is/was to come.

Admitedly that is somewhat of a stretched interpretation to connect and apply to the books to the Thessalonians (Wherein IMO lies the answer).

But does it "hold water"?


HankD

 

This whole "rapture" business is a relatively recent interpretation in Christendom. It was not taught by the church until John Darby popularized the idea in the 1830s, and it was then further spread by Cyrus Scofield in his popular study bible.