1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Friend of Israel?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Grasshopper, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    George,

    Very well said and same here!

    But it always comes down to the covenant a-mils and post-mils making up things to try to discredit the dispies.

    Kim Riddlebarger, who is a good writer for a-mil theology in his oft quoted book on the subject writes that as a child he was totally captivated by dispie teachers that he heard on the radio or saw on the tube. Then he grew up and, due to his academic activities, dispensationalism lost it's shine so to speak. So one could say he "smarted" himself out of dispensationalism. But in other places he talks about his lineage and how they were all covenant to the core. So it begs the question, why were his reformed parents letting young Kim get all involved in pie in the sky theology? One could surmise that Dr. Riddlebarger is either taking liberties with reality or that his parents were less than totally diligent in their duties.

    To go from a pre-mil dispensational theology to a a-mil or post mil or preterist theology, it is necessary to first embrace covenant theology. This is the real debate. Prove that Jehovah made a covenant of grace, works and/or the optional covenant of redemption and dispensationalism falls apart. But be of good cheer George for the Bible speaks not of these two or three covenants!


     
  2. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    George,

    A little off topic but consider this when you are trying to respond to the (mainly) preterist cut and paste crowd on this board. A fascinating area to study with respect to reformed covenant theology as it applies to Baptist is the way in which they deal with the actual act of water baptism.

    As you know, one of the things that make us Baptist is the belief in "believers baptism". But, the bulk of covenant theologians are Presbyterian. As such, the big debate among the reformed, starting with Calvin is the answer to the question if baptism is the new sign of the new covenant, do we baptise the children of believers as a sign of the covenant to replace circumcision or do we wait for the believer to be mature enough to digest the historical creeds of the church?

    A example of the problem in the form of a question is why did Paul have Timothy circumcised after he was baptised?
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    7
    Let Me Clarify

    I've been saved since 1977 and never in all that time have I ever heard such a bizarre "take" on dispensational teachings or truth. Also, I AM NOT anti-semitic and just to disagree with the misguided statement of a professing Jew with a microphone stuck in his face does NOT make me an anti-semite....how ridiculous. We are to love and pray for the people and nation of Israel....however...Bible truth and common sense should dictate what we say and do remembering all along that even though the Jewish people are God's chosen people of promise, they are still lost sinners in need of their Saviour. God is sovereign and has/will accomplish His plan for the ages using His children be they Jew or Gentile. As a believer I can say that it is exciting to watch His plan unfold before us as prophecied in His word. The nation of Israel AND the New Testament Church of THIS dispensation are both an integral part of God's plan and part of His purpose. I'm just thankful to be saved and in His blessed Light. I just wish I was a more faithful witness for Him as the end approaches. He left us here to be His witnesses. I fail Him everyday and desire to overcome my weaknesses that I can serve Him more faithfully.

    To close this let me just say that I love the Jewish people and also the Gentiles. ( I are one:laugh:) We are all one flesh of common descent. Our father is Adam and we are all sinners. God Himself made the only valid distinctions between us (Jew and Gentile) and He could do that because he is our Creator and He has His purpose. We are to evangelize the lost,be they jew or gentile. Saved and lost are the only two people groups that really matter. God WILL use the Jews for certain purposes and tasks both now and in the future in accordance with the promises He established with them long ago. As a dispensationalist and a gentile I am comfortable with that and not in any way jealous of their favored place in His "economy". I have my place too...."which things the angels desire to look into."(1 Peter 1:12) Salvation by grace through faith. (Eph.2:8-9) As saved people of God we all have our place and purpose in the Body of Christ! Hallelujah!!

    Bro.Greg
     
  4. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    7
    Thanks...

    OT...I've always believed that the simple truth is the best truth. Why complicate things by attempting to sound smarter than I really am:laugh:! I'm like yourself and thankful of it. I also have to keep my Bible, a concordance and a good dictionary close when I am on here. I think that is good though because it makes me have to do something I've never been terribly good at...STUDY. That is very helpful to me. I'm also finding that being on these forums makes me have to do something else...pray...OFTEN!:praying::laugh:

    Bless You Brother

    Bro.Greg:thumbsup:
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually I kinda feel sorry for you and millions like you. It doesn't take a genius to see that hard times are getting close, largely due to the looming economic implosion that seems inevitable because there are no leaders that have the will to bite the bullet, fess up and tell the American people what we need to do to face it head on before it happens. Instead of counting on being taken away out of it, perhaps you and your family would be immensely better off to be preparing for it, as in simply becoming as self reliant as possible, you know, just in case you're wrong and you're stuck here with all the rest of us.
     
  6. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    7
    A Question....?

    Interesting post...enjoyed reading it...but...WHO IS GEORGE?

    Bro.Greg:laugh:
     
  7. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This gets me in trouble from time to time but I have special names for most posters on this forum.
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "as the end approaches"

    How sure are you that it's 'the end' that's coming?
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian


    Thomas,
    Do not make the mistake of thinking that the presbyterians do not make a biblical case for their position. At one point I naively thought that they had no case whatsoever, but I was mistaken.
    As a baptist I think their position is inconsistent and has some flaws,that is why I remain a baptist.However it is a major error to think they cannot make a biblical case for their position.

    Thomas....the two go hand in hand because of the flow of redemptive history.

    can i ask you a question here Thomas...before trying to prove or disprove anything???


    Do you notice How God says...I will make ...MY Covenant.....with you.

    Why do you think he says....MY Covenant....instead of OUR covenant?

    If God speaks of His covenant....who was it made with...before he establishes it with Abraham??? When might God's covenant been made,and with who???

    Have you ever thought of this? What do you think it means if it does not mean what most everyone else understands it to mean?
     
  10. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    7
    Eyes WIDE OPEN

    Just so you'll know....I am one dispensationalist that has my eyes wide open and can clearly see that the citizens of this country and indeed the entire world are in for some very troubled times that may shortly befall us all. BUT...economic hard times and the kind of "tribulation" that is described in Revelation under the 7 year rule of the Anti-Christ are two different things entirely. That wicked and hateful ruler is going to perpetrate crimes against God and humanity that will make folks like Hitler appear mild. Matthew 24:22 directly says that if those days were not shortened (by God) NO FLESH (jew or gentile) would be saved.

    I know we are headed for tough times but I also believe that God promised that the righteous would not be forsaken,nor His seed begging bread.(Psalm 37:23-28..wonderful promises of God) I believe with all my heart that God will take care of His own and I also believe we will be gone BEFORE the Anti-Christ "rises to power" for his "day in the sun". That seven years will be his opportunity to take out all his hatred of God on the human race. Those will be woeful days but.....God has NOT "appointed us to wrath". Hallelujah! Thank God for His GRACE!

    Bro.Greg:praying:
     
  11. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for your concern. I've studied the various presby positions on baptism and spent about 6 years in a presby church.


    No

    Yes

    Once again, you try but fail to deliver.
     
  12. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,744
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is of course why in his little story about dispies, Gary (the pipsqueek) Demar is making up stuff when he states (in that dumb link at the beginning of this thread) that dispies want to get a bunch of Jews killed during the tribulation. This is because dispies teach that the church will not be around when the tribulation begins. Dispensationalism also teaches that Jehovah will bring this time to an end on His schedule, not man's.

    As a dispie, I believe when the Bible says that the second coming of our Savior will be spectacular like the flood or possibly the march through the red sea. And yet the preterist think this already happened. Imagine they, the preterist sayng that they feel sorry for the misguided dispies! What we do is take the Bible seriously!
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Webdog says he's the twelfth Imam and some say he's alive in Iraq right now. Do you agree?
     
    #53 kyredneck, Sep 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2012
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    5
    How interesting! What's my name? Do I have one? I want one! :wavey:
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is this like another 'great commission'? Are we 'to love and pray for the people and nation of Israel' more so than for others, like, say, the Inuit? Are we more duty bound to the Jews than we are to the Inuit?

    I'm really curious about this. What's the protocol for 'loving Israel'? How do you know if you're doing enough for them?

    What are YOU doing for Israel?
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    In my opinion the special relation that Israel had with God was ended with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. They were chosen as the vessel through which God would bring the Redeemer first promised in Genesis into the world.

    If an ethnic Israelite is to be saved they will be saved the same way as anyone else. I have told the story of my niece [by marriage], born of Jewish parents. on this Forum more than once. God will bring to salvation those who are His elect!
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you say we Christians are no more duty bound to the Jews than we are to the Inuit?

    I think dispies say that we are.
     
  18. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    2

    What makes you think we haven't? ;) At least some of us?

    Some of us remember the instructions to follow during the 7 years of feast, just in case 7 years of famine follow.

    Genesis 1: KJB
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    And God gave us the ability to divide the light from the darkness in our own lives, in more than one way. In this aspect of light:

    Some of us have used 7 years of plently to provide for the ability to see at night, if the switch on the wall doesn't work for some reason.

    Strike anywhere matches. Flint and steel. Oil lamps and fuel for same.
    Ability to use stone lamps and animal fat for fuel. Propane powered lanterns. Camp fuel lanterns. Cattail torches. Candles of all types -- including experience/supplies to make more.

    A couple of flashlights with half dead batteries don't count if we're in for 7 years of famine before our Lord calls us home. Either as a group or individually as our time in this body comes to an end.
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You, Sir, are wise in this respect. I suppose I was raised a 'prepper', taught to be self reliant, and more importantly to hold myself accountable, as young as I can remember. My father could be a hard man, but I owe him much.

    (P.S. I also was a Boy Scout-'Be Prepared'.) :)
     
    #59 kyredneck, Sep 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2012
  20. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    Remember Brother Larry, if we don't kowtow to everything that Israel wants, God's gonna toss us to the wayside. The same Israel who is STILL looking for the Messiah to come and do what was prophesied of Him to do(btw, He did, a little over 2,000 years ago). The same Israel who doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the Door to the sheepfold. If you don't believe in that Door, you don't have access to the sheepfold/flock.
     
Loading...