The knowledge of the Son of God/perfect man

[awaken]

What is the knowledge of the Son of God?
Paul writes, "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Our knowledge is in part...
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come. (1Cor.13:9-12)This when the Church comes to a perfect man. (Eph.4:11-16) Then that which is in part (knowledge, prophecy, tongues) shall be done away.

There is a perfect to come...
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. At this present time we are a child. But when I became a man, (i.e. a perfect man Eph.4:11-16, Heb.5:11-14, 1Cor.13:9-12) I put away childish things. (knowing in part, prophecy, tongues)

As of today...
For now (today) we see through a glass, (The Word of God - James.1:22-25, 2Cor.3:18) darkly; (as a child, knowing in part) but then face to face: (marriage language) now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (consummation of the marriage of Christ and His Church. Note: Gen.4:1) (1Cor.13:8-12)

What is a Perfect man?

 

[preachinjesus]

The Perfect Man is Christ.

Perfection is not a trait achievable prior to glorification in humanity.

 

[Van]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the idea is some of the gifts given on earth are temporal, being useful during a time, but then no longer needed. So the sign and wonder gifts were needed to authenticate Christ, His disciples and the New Testament. But other gifts are needed until Christ returns for now we see through a glass darkly, but once we go to heaven, then we will see face to face and no longer need the gifts useful when seeing through the glass darkly.

Perfect is sometimes used to refer to complete or mature, and at other times to refer to something without blemish, i.e. flawless such as we are in Christ because our flaws (sins) have been removed. In the verse you reference, the perfect refers to Christ at His second coming, and the glass darkly gifts will no longer be needed for we will be face to face with our Lord. And finally, what gifts will still be useful once in heaven? Faith, Hope, and Love and the greatest is love.

 

[awaken]

The Perfect Man is Christ.

Perfection is not a trait achievable prior to glorification in humanity.

In that scripture it is talking about a child becoming a man (perfect/mature). We are the child that will become a man.

 

[awaken]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the idea is some of the gifts given on earth are temporal, being useful during a time, but then no longer needed. So the sign and wonder gifts were needed to authenticate Christ, His disciples and the New Testament. But other gifts are needed until Christ returns for now we see through a glass darkly, but once we go to heaven, then we will see face to face and no longer need the gifts useful when seeing through the glass darkly.

So how do you pick and chose which gifts are needed to mature the church?

Perfect is sometimes used to refer to complete or mature, and at other times to refer to something without blemish, i.e. flawless such as we are in Christ because our flaws (sins) have been removed. In the verse you reference, the perfect refers to Christ at His second coming, and the glass darkly gifts will no longer be needed for we will be face to face with our Lord. And finally, what gifts will still be useful once in heaven? Faith, Hope, and Love and the greatest is love.

THis I do agree!

 

[awaken]

I would say that the perfect man in this scripture is...
The Bride. The reason is because Jesus cannot marry anyone less than Himself or else He would unequally yoked. (2Cor.6:14-18) This is why the Church (The Bride) will be "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph.5:27, 1Peter.1:18-20)

 

[awaken]

"Wherefore he saith, When He (Jesus) ascended up on high, He (Jesus) led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men," (Eph 4:8-9)
"till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (Eph.4:13) This has not happened yet!

 

[awaken]

What is the measure of the stature of Christ?

 

[Van]

So how do you pick and chose which gifts are needed to mature the church?

All the gifts are needed to help the ministry of the church, including faith, hope and love. However the sign and wonder gifts are no longer needed to authenticate Christ, His disciples and the New Testament.

 

[Van]

I would say that the perfect man in this scripture is...
The Bride. The reason is because Jesus cannot marry anyone less than Himself or else He would unequally yoked. (2Cor.6:14-18) This is why the Church (The Bride) will be "a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph.5:27, 1Peter.1:18-20)

This is the kind of thinking that gets folks off the track. Everyone God puts in Christ is made perfect spiritually, therefore they have no sin flaw. When we see an illustration is scripture, we should not make out of context applications based on other passages that use a similar illustration.

I know lots of folks try to make God's word complicated but it is simple. Jesus lived a sinless life, therefore as the Lamb of God, He was without spot or blemish. Thus our sins are taken out of the way by the washing of regeneration by the precious blood of the Lamb. Thus in Christ we are made perfect.

 

[awaken]

This is the kind of thinking that gets folks off the track. Everyone God puts in Christ is made perfect spiritually, therefore they have no sin flaw. When we see an illustration is scripture, we should not make out of context applications based on other passages that use a similar illustration.

I know lots of folks try to make God's word complicated but it is simple. Jesus lived a sinless life, therefore as the Lamb of God, He was without spot or blemish. Thus our sins are taken out of the way by the washing of regeneration by the precious blood of the Lamb. Thus in Christ we are made perfect.

Maybe the perfection/maturity is when we get out mind in line with our perfect spirit!

 

[awaken]

All the gifts are needed to help the ministry of the church, including faith, hope and love. However the sign and wonder gifts are no longer needed to authenticate Christ, His disciples and the New Testament.

I know one of the reasons for the sign gifts were to authenticate Christ and the apostles, but is that the only reason for them?
What are you calling the sign gifts?

 

[awaken]

Christ is the measuring stick. The "reed," the "rod" (Rev.11:1-2, Eph.4:11-16) that the Church MUST measure up to. Paul told the Corinthians "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves...they measuring themselves by themselves,and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." (2Cor.10:12, Matt.25:1-13)

 

[percho]

"Wherefore he saith, When He (Jesus) ascended up on high, He (Jesus) led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men," (Eph 4:8-9)
"till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (Eph.4:13) This has not happened yet!

conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. And also yours from Eph 4:8,9 one in Christ as the bride made perfect.

At the resurrection at the appearing of Christ. incorruptable.

born to sin no more.

 

[awaken]

conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. And also yours from Eph 4:8,9 one in Christ as the bride made perfect.

At the resurrection at the appearing of Christ. incorruptable.

born to sin no more.

And your point is? If I am understanding your post you are saying all these ministries are need to perfect the saints until the return of Christ. RIGHT?

 

[Van]

Maybe the perfection/maturity is when we get out mind in line with our perfect spirit!

We cannot make ourselves perfect, but through striving to follow Christ we can utilize the leading of the HS along the path to Christian maturity.

 

[Van]

I know one of the reasons for the sign gifts were to authenticate Christ and the apostles, but is that the only reason for them?
What are you calling the sign gifts?

Scripture tells us which gifts were used to authenticate. I listed the verses in a prior post.

Jesus being in the heart of the earth for three days was a sign.

Jesus attesting miracle of turning water into wine.

Healing the sick

Creating bread

Jesus performed other attesting miracles not written in John's book.

Acts 2:43 tells us the apostles were doing signs and wonders.

Laying on of hands resulting in manifesting the Holy Spirit.

Also note the disciples were gifted with recalling "all" that Christ had told them, so speaking God's word.

Speaking in another known language such that their audience could understand without training in that other known language.

Final point, according to the Bible the next guy who actually performs sign and wonders will be a bad guy, not of God. Something to ponder as you look for signs to authenticate your beliefs.

 

[percho]

conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. And also yours from Eph 4:8,9 one in Christ as the bride made perfect.

At the resurrection at the appearing of Christ. incorruptable.

born to sin no more.

I believe the Holy Spirit teaches the elect and fitly joins them together in the church which will be perfected at the appearing of Jesus when Jesus comes to sit in the throne of his glory with the church sitting and ruling and teaching with him.

 

[percho]

Scripture tells us which gifts were used to authenticate. I listed the verses in a prior post.

Jesus being in the heart of the earth for three days was a sign.

Jesus attesting miracle of turning water into wine.

Healing the sick

Creating bread

Jesus performed other attesting miracles not written in John's book.

Acts 2:43 tells us the apostles were doing signs and wonders.

Laying on of hands resulting in manifesting the Holy Spirit.

Also note the disciples were gifted with recalling "all" that Christ had told them, so speaking God's word.

Speaking in another known language such that their audience could understand without training in that other known language.

Final point, according to the Bible the next guy who actually performs sign and wonders will be a bad guy, not of God. Something to ponder as you look for signs to authenticate your beliefs.

Amen Van esp to the last statement.

 

[awaken]

We cannot make ourselves perfect, but through striving to follow Christ we can utilize the leading of the HS along the path to Christian maturity.

So our new born spirit is flawed? How so?
I would say our mind and body are..but how can our spirit be if it is a new creation?