Hell

[HisWitness]

So what's your point?
The question ought to be: What was the Lake of Fire originally created for?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It was not created originally for rebellious mankind, but for the devil and his demons. But ultimately all who reject Christ will end up there.

you still have failed in telling me what the hell was that was cast into the lake of fire ?

 

[HisWitness]

Says you, someone that can't define it, so excuse me, I will take God's word for it, not yours. You don't know what you are talking about as you have already admitted. No, it was not the lake of fire. Nowhere will you find that term until Revelation 19 and 20. Here are all the verses in the bible where the term was used.

Revelation 19:20 (KJV)
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV)
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Pay close attention to Revelation 21: 8 and the warnings offered. Those are real people with real sins that they will be held accountable for because they rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ.

yes im fully aware of what it says

 

[Bronconagurski]

yes im fully aware of what it says

The problem is that you don't know what it means by your own admission.

 

[Bronconagurski]

you still have failed in telling me what the hell was that was cast into the lake of fire ?

The how does not matter. It's the fact that all sinners never saved will be cast into that lake of fire as well. That is what you should be concerned with. Now throw up some more straw men, as that is all you seem to be able to do.

 

[HisWitness]

The how does not matter. It's the fact that all sinners never saved will be cast into that lake of fire as well. That is what you should be concerned with. Now throw up some more straw men, as that is all you seem to be able to do.

LOL your not answering because you dont know what it is either

 

[Bronconagurski]

LOL your not answering because you dont know what it is either

I know who orders it done: God. Now are you going to deny His word some more and say it ain't so? The point is that all sinners that were in hell are now going to the Lake of Fire. That's how. Do you deny they will be there eternally?

 

[HisWitness]

I know who orders it done: God. Now are you going to deny His word some more and say it ain't so? The point is that all sinners that were in hell are now going to the Lake of Fire. That's how. Do you deny they will be there eternally?

i have showed you plain scripture all in the old testament that SOMETIMES the words for ever and everlasting are not eternal but aeon--but the scripture does say those out of death and hell whose names are not written in the lamb's book of life is cast into the lake of fire-

 

[Bronconagurski]

i have showed you plain scripture all in the old testament that SOMETIMES the words for ever and everlasting are not eternal but aeon--but the scripture does say those out of death and hell whose names are not written in the lamb's book of life is cast into the lake of fire-

No, you have not shown me that when it comes to the judgement of sinners. You have given your opinion. No links from scholarly books, just your opinion. You were given proof form scholarly works such as Logos and Strong that sinners will be there eternally. Now answer the question. Will those people cast into the lake of fire be there eternally?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Well, I posted this link which no one has commented on:

http://www.seekfind.net/Bible_Dictionary__Define_aion__Definition_of_aion.html

It is worthy of comment.

 

[psalms109:31]

Aion

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 165
Original Word Word Origin
aion from the same as (104)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Aion 1:197,31
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ahee-ohn' Noun Masculine
Definition
for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
the worlds, universe
period of time, age


Your friend picked the best translation that is watered down to accept.

With all it means the best translation is unbroken age which is eternity.

If you want to translate it as your friend does than eternal salvation is a temporary age to.

You don't like that translation do you?

 

[HisWitness]

Well, I posted this link which no one has commented on:

http://www.seekfind.net/Bible_Dictionary__Define_aion__Definition_of_aion.html

It is worthy of comment.

Just goes to show you how many translation errors we have in the KJV bible--tyhe greek and hebrew writings of the bible are far different than some translations we have today :-( But there are some that has better translations out there.

 

[psalms109:31]

Most universalist i have debated, one in particular a clergy of a universal church and i am tired of debating a wall is what I call; a Calvinist/Universalist. Except since man can not save himself and God wants all men to be saved all men will be saved.

To them, but I believe to be saved in our age we must repent to live come to the knowledge of the truth.

If we have not come to that on earth.

We die and then face judgement, if God did not spare the angels He will not spare us either.

 

[DHK]

Just goes to show you how many translation errors we have in the KJV bible--tyhe greek and hebrew writings of the bible are far different than some translations we have today :-( But there are some that has better translations out there.

Anyone who believes in the one word = one meaning theory of translation is naive. Most words have many meanings. How many definitions can you come up with for the English word "church"?
Context is king. Without context the proper definition cannot be determined.

 

[HisWitness]

Most universalist i have debated, one in particular a clergy of a universal church and i am tired of debating a wall is what I call; a Calvinist/Universalist. Except since man can not save himself and God wants all men to be saved all men will be saved.

To them, but I believe to be saved in our age we must repent to live come to the knowledge of the truth.

If we have not come to that on earth.

We die and then face judgement, if God did not spare the angels He will not spare us either.

why do you have a problem with God wanting all men to be saved--do you have that same problem with him for concluding ALL under sin through adam ?

 

[psalms109:31]

why do you have a problem with God wanting all men to be saved--do you have that same problem with him for concluding ALL under sin through adam ?

I have no problem with, you can ask anyone here. I promote that, but it will not happen if we do not repent and come to the knowledge of the truth before we die and then face judgement.

Ezekiel 18:21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29 Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

"Does not the text mean that it is the wish of God that men should be saved? The word "wish" gives as much force to the original as it really requires, and the passage should run thus—"whose wish it is that all men should be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." As it is my wish that it should be so, as it is your wish that it might be so, so it is God's wish that all men should be saved; for, assuredly, he is not less benevolent than we are. Then comes the question, "But if he wishes it to be so, why does he not make it so? " Beloved friend, have you never heard that a fool may ask a question which a wise man cannot answer, and, if that be so, I am sure a wise person, like yourself, can ask me a great many questions which, fool as I am, I am yet not foolish enough to try to answer. Your question is only one form of the great debate of all the ages,—"If God be infinitely good and powerful, why does not his power carry out to the full all his beneficence?" It is God's wish that the oppressed should go free, yet there are many oppressed who are not free. It is God's wish that the sick should not suffer. Do you doubt it? Is it not your own wish? And yet the Lord does not work a miracle to heal every sick person. It is God's wish that his creatures should be happy. Do you deny that? He does not interpose by any miraculous agency to make us all happy, and yet it would be wicked to suppose that he does not wish the happiness of all the creatures that he has made. He has an infinite benevolence which, nevertheless, is not in all points worked out by his infinite omnipotence; and if anybody asked me why it is not, I cannot tell. I have never set up to be an explainer of all difficulties, and I have no desire to do so. It is the same old question as that of the negro who said, "Sare, you say the devil makes sin in the world." "Yes, the devil makes a deal of sin." "And you say that God hates sin." "Yes." "Then why does not he kill the devil and put an end to it?" Just so. Why does he not? Ah, my black friend, you will grow white before that question is answered. I cannot tell you why God permits moral evil, neither can the ablest philosopher on earth, nor the highest angel in heaven."

C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Aion

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 165
Original Word Word Origin
aion from the same as (104)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Aion 1:197,31
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ahee-ohn' Noun Masculine
Definition
for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
the worlds, universe
period of time, age


Your friend picked the best translation that is watered down to accept.

With all it means the best translation is unbroken age which is eternity.

If you want to translate it as your friend does than eternal salvation is a temporary age to.

You don't like that translation do you?

To whom are you addressing your baiting post?

If to me, I can give you all kinds of evidence of what the word 'aion' means -- from secular scholars, Bible scholars, linguists, Bible historians, etc., but I choose not to try to have discourse with someone posting with your manner and tone.

 

[psalms109:31]

To whom are you addressing your baiting post?

If to me, I can give you all kinds of evidence of what the word 'aion' means -- from secular scholars, Bible scholars, linguists, Bible historians, etc., but I choose not to try to have discourse with someone posting with your manner and tone.

You are trying really to say that eternity which is salvation to is only and age and that is not what the text says nor the translation that God has chosen it to say and I take offense to that not to you. You are not the only one promoting this non-sense.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You are trying really to say that eternity which is salvation to is only and age and that is not what the text says nor the translation that God has chosen it to say and I take offense to that not to you. You are not the only one promoting this non-sense.

I'm not trying to say anything, as I have not taken a position, so I am not promoting anything. I am rather presenting evidence and objective evidence. I am interested in what scholars, historians, and linguists say, not someone's biased opinion on an internet forum.The reader can make up his or her mind, based on the evidence.

 

[psalms109:31]

I'm not trying to say anything, as I have not taken a position, so I am not promoting anything. I am rather presenting evidence and objective evidence. I am interested in what scholars, historians, and linguists say, not someone's biased opinion on an internet forum.The reader can make up his or her mind, based on the evidence.

You are not posting what the word and all of it meanings you are only posting people and definitions that agree with yours. It is called trying to win people to incomplete meaning of the word. If it is your meaning then eternal life is only an age of life nothing bias about it. What you say about me can be said about you.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Just goes to show you how many translation errors we have in the KJV bible--tyhe greek and hebrew writings of the bible are far different than some translations we have today :-( But there are some that has better translations out there.

So the man that can not give us a definition hell is now a textual critic? So answer me, if the KJV is not the word of God, then where is the word of God?