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I don't know that Scripture testifies to this. Scripture says

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” Gen 18:20-21


13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.” Gen. 19:13

Were there no other sins taking place? The Scripture speaks to no righteous people in the cities. And it is highly suspect that they were deemed unrighteous merely because of homosexuality.

The unrighteous are deemed so because they reject God and His Way.

 

Thanks Oldtimer, I appreciate the discussion.

You are basically correct on the Supreme Court case. BSA argued that we were a religious organization and as a religious organization we could exclude homosexuals as being incompatible with our religious beliefs. The problem, then and now, was that while many sponsoring organizations are religious in nature, some are not. The arguments works for a troop that is sponsored by a church, homosexuality is not compatible with their religious views (most churches anyway, thank God, I know there are some so called churches out there that permit it but someone else can argue that). The problem comes when the sponsoring organization is secular in nature and we are getting more and more of those.

If the Ban is lifted, the argument and court case will remain in effect and sponsoring organizations opposed to homosexuality will still be free to exclude it.

The pressure from former scouts who are now homosexual has been growing for some time. Zack Wahls is one. He is a former eagle scout and current homosexual. Jennifer Tyrrell is another. She was a leader in her son’s cub scout pack and is homosexual.

The United Way has cut their funding for Scouting for years now. It was one reason I refused to support the United Way when my employer wanted me to head donations in our plant. (another is the pro death causes they do support). As far as I am concerned the United Way can keep their money. I have been associated with scouting one way or another since 1973 and the last time I was with a unit that received united way dollars it was the in the 80s. At the local level we get funding from individuals, churches, our local VFW and American Legion chapters, that’s about it. I have no doubt our funding will drop if they allow homosexuals in. But that is at a local level. The national level guys are an entire different story.

We seem to be getting way off the BSA topic here.

 

It is silly to ask if there were sins other than homosexuality. Scripture provides the answer. But given the emphasis in Scripture on the reception of the two angels from God it is obvious they were destroyed because of the sin of homosexuality.

 

Yes! Thanks for the clarification.

I believe that generally when God punishes a people/nation He uses another people/nation to do so. God did this in the destruction of jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

Don't know because it has never happened. If the person were a Christian and member of the same Church as I am and if he were still living the homosexual lifestyle I should follow the instructions of Jesus Christ in Matthew 16.

THis seems to be the problem with some of the posts on this thread. There appears, at least to me, some who would give the practicing homosexual and is a professing Christian a pass, saying his sin is no worse than other sins. Certainly homosexuality is no worse than intentional murder, including the murder of the unborn, but it is much worse than those who choose to speed.

There is another problem with homosexuality. Those who deliberately murder are unlikely to deny that it is wrong or sinful depending on their relation to God. It is unusual for those who engage in the homosexual lifestyle to admit that it is wrong, unnatural, and a sin. The so called "gay-rights" parades are not an expression of the sinfulness of their lifestyle but an obscene demonstration of their lifestyle.

I have yet to see or hear of a "murderers rights" parade, except by those who celebrate the death of the unborn.

 

paul in Romans seems to make it quite clear that the sin of practicing openningly Homosexuality does get special attention from God, as does also adutery and sex without marriage, as ALL of those sexual sexs attack in some fashion the person, hitting at image of God...

And Sodomy and other Homosexual behaviors were being done on a large scale, so indeed God had a special judgement for that city...

What is amazing is that he was willing to extend mercy, but NONE even sought to have it!

 

No such thing is obvious except to those who seek to make this sin worse than any others. And one must ask why this vendetta to make this one worse than all others?

Not murder. Not adultery. Not the worship of a false god. But somehow folks have deemed to make the committing of homosexual acts worse than any other sin and their simply is no Biblical reason for doing so.

There seems to be a lot of personal issues associated with this sin that have nothing to do with Scripture.

 

Again there is no SCRIPTURAL basis for making that statement.

His special judgment according to Scripture is because there was not one righteous person to be found. For sure the committing of homosexual acts was part of their unrighteousness, but nothing in Scripture says that God destroyed the cities because of that one sin. If His intent was that cities be destroyed because this one sin ran rampant, then a lot of places would currently be underneath His thumb.

There is nothing more heinous about the committing of homosexual acts than there is about the committing of heterosexual fornication. And as the number of heterosexual fornicators is far greater, several places could have been destroyed for that act back then and now.

Perhaps there were too many making them out to be the worst of the worst that they wouldn't listen to the ones who sought to tell them about God.

 

I would say you are correct, a homosexual claiming to be a Christian would be subject to the Matthew 18 principles...which would not necessarily have to end up with bringing it before the church if the person was repentant and committed to stopping.

 

paul states those those who practice and teach and condone others doing "unnatural" things aree deserving of death, where else does the bible statea particular sin would be liable for death, except for Murder?

IF you want to state that this Sin would be same to God as Murder, would that be OK?

 

You know what I meant. There are natural and unnatural apetites, and even those without the spirit of God are (rightfully) disgusted by them—at first.

That's the point. You've acknowledged it. So all this "so you think you're better than others" calumny is only so much subterfuge.

 

Who has condoned, practiced or taught that others sin? All sin is unnatural.

God's word says that all sin leads to death.

If they all lead to death, how is one worse?

 

Well I know I was not disagreeing with you 12strings, but since no one else answered I will. I have had that happen. As a pastor, as a counselor, and as a chaplain I have people come to me and confess murder, rape, and homosexuality. I have never had anyone come to me and admit that they had committed an act of pedophilia. I also have never had anyone leave that I thought was a danger to themselves or others. God’s message is the same to all of them, “that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

The real hard question as a counselor is what if you believe someone is a danger to themselves or someone else. If they say “I have” done some bad thing, or “I am tempted” to do some thing that is one question, but what if they say, “I am going to . . .” If you believe they are going to hurt someone else then at what point does that other person’s safety require you take action? That is a much more difficult position, one I have not been in.

How did we get here from scouts again?

 

Zaac you have demonstrated over the last several months that you have an ingrained ability to be wrong on so many issues and you are wrong on the sin of homosexuality. It is not an unforgivable sin but I suspect that it is the one sin that is rarely confessed for the simple reason that most homosexuals do not believe they are sinning.

A few questions for you and I begin by noting that all true Churches are constituted of sinners saved by Grace.

Do we have churches [And I use the word church only in a illustrative sense.] composed only of those who believe murder is not a sin and whose membership is composed only by those who have committed murder and would commit murder again?

Do we have churches composed only by those who believe robbery is not a sin and and whose membership is composed only by those who continue to commit robbery?

Do we have churches composed only by those who believe drunkenness is not a sin and and whose membership is composed only by those who are drunkards?

I could go with numerous examples but I believe that the answer to the three above questions in NO! However:

There are churches [And again I use the word church only in a illustrative sense.] composed only of those who believe homosexuality is not a sin and whose membership is composed only of those who engage in the homosexual lifestyle or possibly those who believe that lifestyle is not a sin.

The Apostle Paul seems to indicate that because of the practice of homosexuality God gives those people up to a life of sin. You might read Romans 1:18-32, paying particular attention to verse 32 which tells us:

Romans 1:32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

That last clause but have pleasure in them that do them. is one that is very troublesome given the effort by you and others to claim that the sin of homosexuality is no worse than, for example:

When there is nothing in Scripture that indicates Christians are obligated to tithe.

 

And I tend to think that you and the rest of the clique have demonstrated again and again how much your own pride tends to make y'all wrong on the simplest of issues. And homosexuality is apparently no different. Y'all think I'm wrong. I think y'all are wrong and come across like the modern day Pharisees who think you're so Godly and got it all together while continuing to spit on the very ideals that Jesus demonstrated.

So if you want to believe that homosexual sin is worse than your pride and all the other sin you and the clique constantly demonstrate, feel free to do so.

Right just like you and the clique didn't think there was anything wrong with God's people supporting that which is against Him. Or the way that some apparently think that homosexuality is a worse sin than others.

Ain't no difference in the homosexual refusing to see their sin than there is in you and others refusing to see their own.

15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. 1 John 3:15

Do you know of a Church that composed of 100% homosexuals who believe that committing homosexual acts is not a sin and who would thus commit those sins again?

There are plenty of folks in those churches who go there because they don't have to put up with being told that their sin was the worst of the worst. They have overcome their sin but find the people there more accepting than churches where they repeatedly hear folks waxing on about how the sin which held them captive is so much worse than all other sins.

Do we have churches composed of individuals who go on and on about robbery being a worse sin than all other sins?

Do we have churches composed of individuals who go on and on about drunkenness being a worse sin than any other?

And there are apparently churches composed of those who believe that homosexuality is a worse sin than their unrighteous judging of homosexuality to be the worst sin.

The whole of Scripture says:28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32

So it looks like there are a whole list of things God gave them over to do.

 

Methinks thou doth protest too much!

 

Now that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while. If it were possible, I might be offended.:laugh: But I don't mind the personal attacks or even the hint of one. I'm a big boy.

As for protesting too much, that works BOTH ways.

 

It all started with the rejection of GOD and after they rejected GOD He gave them over to what? Homosexuality! Read it in verses 26 and 27! It is then that GOD gave them over to a reprobate mind!


Romans 1:22-28
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I repeat an assertion by you that is totally false and which you have yet to respond. You say in your post #37:

You make this ridiculous claim when there is nothing in Scripture requiring the Christian to tithe!

 

Verses 28 through 32 refute what you are insinuating and it's odd that you're ignoring the FURTHERMORE.

The very Scripture on the page shows that they were given over to a depraved mind to do more than just commit homosexual acts.

You can repeat it as much as you like. You're trying to change the subject so ain't no need to respond.

 

You really should read what I say before you respond:

Now what does a reprobate person do Zaac? They sin!

From Zaac's post #37:

No it is not changing the subject. In an effort to downplay the abomination of homosexual behavior in your post 37 you, Zaac, said that the failure of the Christian to tithe was equivalent to the abomination of the homosexual lifestyle. I say that is utter nonsense and beyond that it is irrational, particularly since there is no Scripture obligating the Christian to tithe.