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If the Holy Spirit is In Charasmatic Movement, Why the errors and heresies?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Good; I got your attention. That was the purpose of the post.:laugh::laugh::laugh: OK, you got your laugh now! That was what you were aiming for wasn't it? To ridicule me... Can't you address something without the personal attacks? Oh! I forgot you are a moderater and can get away with it!
I became a Christian as an adult, at the age of 20. I believed on the basis of the evidence presented to me.
First, that the Bible is the Word of God. I believed that to be true.
Second, that Christ was God. I believed that to be true based on the resurrection of Christ, a historically verifiable fact. I wasn't there, but I wasn't there when WWI or WWII took place either. But I believe they took place. The evidence exists.
My faith is based on solid historical evidence. It is not blind. The facts are there. I can point you to them.
What you cannot do is point to evidence that the gift of miracles, the gift of healing, and even the gift of Biblical tongues/languages are taking place today, or have taken place in the last 1900 years. There is no evidence. You say they are in operation today but there is no evidence. You base your beliefs on blind faith, just as one believes that monkeys live on Pluto--blind faith; no evidence. I hope you get my point by now.
So we can make fun of people if we want to get there attention???Good; I got your attention. That was the purpose of the post.
I became a Christian as an adult, at the age of 20. I believed on the basis of the evidence presented to me.
First, that the Bible is the Word of God. I believed that to be true.
Second, that Christ was God. I believed that to be true based on the resurrection of Christ, a historically verifiable fact. I wasn't there, but I wasn't there when WWI or WWII took place either. But I believe they took place. The evidence exists.
My faith is based on solid historical evidence. It is not blind. The facts are there. I can point you to them.
What you cannot do is point to evidence that the gift of miracles, the gift of healing, and even the gift of Biblical tongues/languages are taking place today, or have taken place in the last 1900 years. There is no evidence. You say they are in operation today but there is no evidence. You base your beliefs on blind faith, just as one believes that monkeys live on Pluto--blind faith; no evidence. I hope you get my point by now.
I am not making fun of you.So we can make fun of people if we want to get there attention???
You take the gifts of the Spirit of blind faith. There is no evidence for them today, nor has there been for the last 1900 years. I have given you parallel illustrations, not ridicule, why there must be evidence for one's belief.
It would be good for you to read Josh McDowell's book, "Evidence That Demands a Verdict."
My evidence is the Word of God!I am not making fun of you.
You take the gifts of the Spirit of blind faith. There is no evidence for them today, nor has there been for the last 1900 years. I have given you parallel illustrations, not ridicule, why there must be evidence for one's belief.
It would be good for you to read Josh McDowell's book, "Evidence That Demands a Verdict."
That is what the J.W.'s and Mormon's tell me.My evidence is the Word of God!
The J.W.'s were at my door very recently trying to convince me that Jesus Christ was a "creation," "a god" according to John 1:1. I told them that was a Hindu belief of polytheism--more than one God. Nevertheless they insisted they believed the Bible and that their "interpretation" was the correct one.
Are you any different? Of course, you are a believer, and I am not questioning that. You evidence is not the Word of God, but your interpretation of the Word of God, just like the J.W.'s told me. Your interpretation is not any better than theirs--on that subject. Remember, they made prophesies and failed. Under OT law they should have been taken out and stoned. Instead, they just adjusted their theology to accommodate their failed prophecies.
But the Charismatic Movement doesn't even do that. They aren't even as honest as the J.W.'s. They won't admit their failure in prophecies, or when they do, they say it doesn't matter. One of them, when being interviewed, said glibly, "You can't hit it every time." What folly! What charlatans!
That is what the J.W.'s and Mormon's tell me.
The J.W.'s were at my door very recently trying to convince me that Jesus Christ was a "creation," "a god" according to John 1:1. I told them that was a Hindu belief of polytheism--more than one God. Nevertheless they insisted they believed the Bible and that their "interpretation" was the correct one.
Are you any different? Of course, you are a believer, and I am not questioning that. You evidence is not the Word of God, but your interpretation of the Word of God, just like the J.W.'s told me. Your interpretation is not any better than theirs--on that subject. Remember, they made prophesies and failed. Under OT law they should have been taken out and stoned. Instead, they just adjusted their theology to accommodate their failed prophecies.
But the Charismatic Movement doesn't even do that. They aren't even as honest as the J.W.'s. They won't admit their failure in prophecies, or when they do, they say it doesn't matter. One of them, when being interviewed, said glibly, "You can't hit it every time." What folly! What charlatans!
How many times do I have to post that you can not prove it is all wrong because there are false out there!
Take away the false and there is nothing out there.How many times do I have to post that you can not prove it is all wrong because there are false out there!
Add what is out there and there is only false out there.
There is no evidence of any of the true Biblical spiritual gifts being operative today. The only evidence we have is that which is being practiced in the Charismatic movement and in paganism, which is not of God.
I am done debating this with you...UNLESS you have something new to add to the debate! We are just repeating ourselves over and over!Take away the false and there is nothing out there.
Add what is out there and there is only false out there.
There is no evidence of any of the true Biblical spiritual gifts being operative today. The only evidence we have is that which is being practiced in the Charismatic movement and in paganism, which is not of God.
"My Hope is Built on Nothing Less"I am done debating this with you...UNLESS you have something new to add to the debate! We are just repeating ourselves over and over!
by Edward Mote, 1797-1874
1. My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.
2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale
My anchor holds within the veil.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.
3. His oath, His covenant, and blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When every earthly prop gives way,
He then is all my Hope and Stay.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.
4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found,
Clothed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne!
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.
http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/lyrics/tlh370.htm
My faith stands on the evidence of the atoning work of Jesus Christ.
I know what he did--his death, burial and resurrection.
It stands today as the cornerstone of all Christianity.
There is no evidence of for the continuation of the spiritual gifts. They ended at the first century. No historical evidence--past or present can be brought forward for their being in existence today.
We can only conclude therefore that they do not exist.
But Jesus lives. And because he lives, I live.
I do not believe it ever stopped! I believe man was taught wrong (unbelief)! I also believe that it has happened in history. Just because you do not read about it in history books does not mean it NEVER happened. It is happening right now and we do not hear about it!
the mormons claim that God sent them to restore real Chrsitianity, that the Church went Apsostate 1800 years..
They have tongues and wonders so called, "burning" of the HS in their bosum///
Why should we consider their claim to be any less than yours regard god restoring the church at Azusa now?
What makes their claim less then yours?
I have shown scriptures proving my claim! Hey! I can only plant the seeds God tells me too! I can not prepare the soil (hearts) of those that could receive.the mormons claim that God sent them to restore real Chrsitianity, that the Church went Apsostate 1800 years..
They have tongues and wonders so called, "burning" of the HS in their bosum///
Why should we consider their claim to be any less than yours regard god restoring the church at Azusa now?
What makes their claim less then yours?
I have shown scriptures proving my claim! Hey! I can only plant the seeds God tells me too! I can not prepare the soil (hearts) of those that could receive.
How can you know they are false prophets, since most of the modern charasmatics hold to ongoing revelation from Apsotles/prophets, how to know which claim is true?
There are false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, false pastors and false Christ!How can you know they are false prophets, since most of the modern charasmatics hold to ongoing revelation from Apsotles/prophets, how to know which claim is true?
True apostles can make mistakes! Gal. 2:11-15 shows Paul correcting Peter.
How do you know the false from the fake in all those cases?
True followers of God (not false) will never speak gibberish. It is not a God-given gift. If it is not of God then who is it from?There are false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, false pastors and false Christ!
True apostles can make mistakes! Gal. 2:11-15 shows Paul correcting Peter.
How do you know the false from the fake in all those cases?
Do you really want to repeat all of our previous conversations? I do not think so!True followers of God (not false) will never speak gibberish. It is not a God-given gift. If it is not of God then who is it from?
I do agree that they will not speak gibberish! Gibberish is not in the Bible! But tongues is and Mark 16 tells us we will speak with new tongues~!
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Do you really want to repeat all of our previous conversations? I do not think so!
I do agree that they will not speak gibberish! Gibberish is not in the Bible! But tongues is and Mark 16 tells us we will speak with new tongues~!
And those "tongues" are known languages, not just random meaningless syllables strung together.
You tell me:Do you really want to repeat all of our previous conversations? I do not think so!
I do agree that they will not speak gibberish! Gibberish is not in the Bible! But tongues is and Mark 16 tells us we will speak with new tongues~!
You have a private prayer language which you claim is tongues, and Biblical.
You say it is a language, but you don't know what the language is and cannot translate it. You have no idea what you are saying.
We say you are speaking gibberish.
No doubt you are denying that.
Then you explain to us how what you are speaking is not gibberish and is an actual language that can be understood, especially if you or no one else can understand it.
There are false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, false pastors and false Christ!
True apostles can make mistakes! Gal. 2:11-15 shows Paul correcting Peter.
How do you know the false from the fake in all those cases?
again, by what basis do YOU judge charasmatic activities by? as I said, mormons have tongues and manifestations, so why are they wrong, but yours right?
You think the Canon is closed right? no ongoing revelations from modern apsotles/prophets?
I have never said otherwise! I have said from the very beginning that they are languages. Just not a language the speaker himself knows.And those "tongues" are known languages, not just random meaningless syllables strung together.