Featured Were there no elders/bishops/pastors in the New Testament?

To all...share this forum discussion with your church members...see what they think. Let then see how you have usurped that which the Holy Spirit put in place, let them see not a single one of you can offer any evidence that pastors are in the Bible and should replace the Elders. Let them read these post and let them decide. I doubt that you will.

 

I would never place such gobbeldygook before the church. They would laugh at it. Anyone with any Biblical sense would.

 

Which of these verses do you think they will laugh at?

Acts 20:28 (To the Elders Paul says) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

Titus 1:5-9 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders (πρεσβύτερος) in every town, as I directed you.

 

They would laugh at the absurdity of believing that one who is a shepherd is not also a pastor. As you have been told numerous times, they are one and the same.

With that, I'm done. You've had your jollies.

 

Thousands of pastors and scholars and not one will stand up and show anywhere in the Bible where someone who calls himself the Latin words for shephers has the authority to end the rule that the Holy Spirit put in place, called the Elders. can anyone scholar anywhere show us that the Elders ARE NOT the ones charged with being the Overseers and shepherds of the Church. One voice from any of the NT scholars. Please speak up. Share this forum topic with your congregation you "pastor" and let them decide if you have mounted any defense at all. I think you will not for if you did you would be out of a career, and loss of prestige.

 

Did anyone see where it looks like the Patriots might be considering using Tebow as a tight end?

 

Acts 20:28 should end the argument. Shepherds (pastors) overseers (bishops) and elders are the same people. Elders are who they are, pastors and bishops are the jobs the elders do.

 

BTW...since this forum thread asks the question of "were there no bishops" in the Bible I must raise the question....where in the Bible is there a "Bishop?" Certainly not in any Greek manuscript.

 

Here is a link that shows this fellas mentality is born out of the house church movement:

http://www.housechurchresource.org/expastors/

 

Read ACTS 20:17...Paul is speaking to ELDERS! Then in verse 28 he says to "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood..." THIS is a message to ELDERS, it cannot be any more plain than this.

 

RevMitchell, share with your congregation this forum topic and see of they agree with you or the Bible. Simple matter. Pastors, not in the Bible, or Elders which is in the Bible and established by the Holy Spirit. See what your congregation chooses. Or, does the pastor choose for them.

 

Exactly. Paul is writing to elders. In v 28 he says the Holy Spirit has made the elders overseers (bishops). And the elders are to be shepherds (pastors). What are we arguing about here?

 

He is arguing that pastors should not be pastors and they should not be paid and there must absolutely always be more than on elder otherwise we have overtake the Holy Ghost in the church and we are all heathens.


Yea I think that about covers it.

 

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I am not opposed to non-salaried pastors. But that issue is only a side issue and not the main one here.

 

I am not opposed to it unless it is presented as a must. But in the end churches are not going to find many who can afford to do that.

 

His cult leader has told him that "shepherd" is an ancient Greek word that is fundamentally different from the word "pastor" apparently. The sad thing is that he believes it, despite the enormous amount of evidence he has been shown.

Apparently he also has a problem with the church paying their elders, so they can engage in full time ministry, despite the fact that this is actually commanded in multiple places in the New Testament.

Ultimately, I think this type of attitude is usually a heart problem. "What? You want me to give my money for the work of the church? NO WAY> I need my cash for a new pair of Nikes. We will just all sit around the living room, and drink coffee instead."

Sickening, the greed that has infiltrated the church.

 

I have not seen that it is greed. To be fair to folks in the HCM they are not only against paying the pastor but also they are against using money for a building. Many of them are more focused on missions and outreach and they feel that to have money go to anything else is sinful.

The HCM is very legalistic and the people in that movement tend to be very judgmental of other Christians who are not exactly like them. They seem to spend much of their time worrying about how others are doing church. If they would just drop their legalism and stop worrying about what others are doing they would have a bit more credibility. As it stands their websites have a lot of space dedicated to criticizing how everyone else is doing it.

So our little friend here is just a product of his brainwashing from the HCM. That spirit has infected him in a deep way.