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Featured Misapplied verses

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Herald, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered in My name, I am there in the midst."

    These passage is often used to defend the teaching that Christ is present whenever "two or three" are gathered in His name. I have heard people use this in regards to prayer and even bible studies. But is that what this verse means in its larger context? Let us look at the larger context:

    The entire passage is on church discipline. Verses 18-20 teach that God validates the discipline decisions of the local church when the church is agreed on it.

    Now, is Christ, through the Holy Spirit, present if two or three Christians are gathered? Certainly. But He is also there if only one is gathered. He is there if thirteen are gathered. It is just that Matthew 18:15-20 is teaching something different.

    Why is this important? Because discipline is lawfully applied only within the church, not outside the church.
     
    #1 Herald, Sep 24, 2013
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes... this I have heard almost always out of context,and to defend error.
    Some confuse the Kingdom of God with the church.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Sep 24, 2013
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I've noticed that also. I have heard the verse many times, but never in context of the actual passage.
     
    #3 JonC, Sep 24, 2013
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Herald - WHERE IS THE MICROPHONE HIDDEN IN MY HOUSE??????

    That was REALLY spooky! Hubby and I were JUST talking about this about 2 hours ago. Wow!!!

    Bottom line, there is no way you can get around the context - and the fact that SO often it is taken out and used for all sorts of things that it's not supposed to be used for!
     
    #4 annsni, Sep 24, 2013
  5. beameup

    beameup Member

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    The Greek word ecclesia is used, however the Gentile Church did not exist,
    and would later be "revealed" only to the Apostle Paul, so the word just means a gathering or meeting in a synagogue.
     
    #5 beameup, Sep 24, 2013
  6. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    LOL! Trust me. There is no microphone. Unless, of course, the NSA placed it.
     
    #6 Herald, Sep 24, 2013
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I don't believe you. The green men told me that you planted a mic under the piano.

    :wavey:
     
    #7 annsni, Sep 24, 2013
  8. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    When I first learned what the passage meant, in context, I was chagrined. I had been a Christian for nearly 25 years and found it hard to swallow that I had jumped on the bandwagon without giving the passage any serious thought. Since then I have had my biblical paradigm broken more than a few times. It is all part of learning.
     
    #8 Herald, Sep 24, 2013
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :applause: Early on I did the same thing.I heard a good series of messages on the church that set me back on track...:laugh:Coming from an RC backround, I wrongly thought that baptists had it all right...:laugh:
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Sep 24, 2013
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What!!!!! it is tuesday night and you and your husband were discussing spiritual truth????? Isn't that only for sunday? What is going on in that household??? Godly living, and a Godly marraige Christ centered and alive???
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Sep 24, 2013
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Context is about apostolic authority:

    18 Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
    19 Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.
    20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    Acts 15 council at Jerusalem is a good example, Paul in 1 Cor 5:5 and so on is another.

    Christ's apostles were given authority.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Sep 24, 2013
  12. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Certainly the Apostles were given authority (Mat. 16:19), and the Church is to follow the teachings of the Apostles (Eph. 2:20). But Jesus' teaching in Matthew 18 has direct application to the Church. It is the model for dealing with the sin of believers.
     
    #12 Herald, Sep 25, 2013
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Exactly.

    I agree with the misuse of this passage, it is common and talked about often.

    Another hugely misapplied passage is Matthew 7:1...'judge not'.
     
    #13 preacher4truth, Sep 25, 2013
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Christ was not telling 'the Church', i.e. you and me, that "what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." That was addressed to the apostles as in the manner addressed to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
     
    #14 kyredneck, Sep 25, 2013
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    That is exactly why Roman Catholics insist on making their claim stick....IE, their Priests, Bishops etc are the descendent's of the Apostles therefore they have permission directly from the Lord.
     
    #15 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2013
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Lord, wilt thou that we bid fire to come down from heaven, and consume them?"

    I don't believe any priest, bishop etc., has ever had that sort of authority.
     
    #16 kyredneck, Sep 25, 2013
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well they are making that claim up here in SODOM & GOMORRAH! They have even got a set of keys from what I understand. And since there is no Baptists here to dispute that.....the lie gets perpetuated.....and it grows & it grows & it grows.:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #17 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2013
  18. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Well-Known Member

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    Off Topic: Let him be unto you as a Gentile and a tax collector. I am already a Gentile and if I had a job as a tax assessor I would be a tax collector. What meaning would this be to me. The definition of a heathen and a publican had a stronger meaning back then than it does now. I will stick with the King James version.
     
    #18 salzer mtn, Sep 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  19. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    If I used your method of interpreting scripture then most of the Bible would have no relevance to the Church. After all, Acts was written to Theophilus; James to of the saints to the Diaspora; Revelation to seven specific churches; 1 and 2 Timothy to Timothy et. al.
     
    #19 Herald, Sep 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So the assemblies have been given 'power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases', or, to turn one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

    My 'method of interpretation' is perfectly in line with Charles Hodge's three simple rules:

    1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

    2. Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

    3. The Scriptures are to be interpreted under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which guidance is to be humbly and earnestly sought.
     
    #20 kyredneck, Sep 25, 2013
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