Featured Dont Arminians Agree That Man is Spiritual Unable to get to God ALONE?

The scriptures nowhere teach that unsaved men lack the ability to believe, you cannot show a single verse of scripture to support that. That is a purely man-made false doctrine.

What scripture shows is that man is unable to come to God because of ignorance. No man is born with the knowledge of the true God or Jesus Christ.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:14 absolutely implies inability, but not because men lack free will. What men lack is knowledge. Paul's question demands the answer that no man can believe in Jesus unless that man has heard of Jesus.

But this verse also implies that this is the ONLY reason man cannot believe in Jesus. Paul does not mention ANY other condition that would prevent a man from believing in Jesus.

So, man IS born unable to believe in Jesus, but not because he lacks free will as many falsely teach.

 

The title and the op don't match up. Of course they believe God must reach out to man first, but that in no way negates man's free agency.

 

Wow, another thread from our friend. :smilewinkgrin:

Scripture teaches that believers believe by the power of God, the same power that rose Christ from the dead.

 

I notice you failed to give a reference for the scripture that says this.

 

I beg to disagree, P4T said "scripture teaches that men believe by the power of God"

I would like to see the scripture that supports this statement. Many people claim the scriptures say things that they do not say at all.

 

Yes.

No one CAN come to God unless drawn to Him.

"I will DRAW ALL unto Me" John 12:32.

For God so loved the WORLD "yes really".

in Christ,

Bob

 

I have no idea what "arms" hold to on this. But I can tell you that being unable to come to God unless God first reaches out has nothing to do with free will. God is not interfering with man's will nor does scripture suggest anywhere that God decreed that He will not let man come to Him prior to an offer of grace.

What it does say is that no matter what man's will is God gets the credit. (John 1:13) God gets the credit because even if man has the will (not saying he does) to come to God salvation is not possible even then unless God provides it and offers it. Man cannot force God's hand no matter how much of his will wants it. Only God can provide it because He is the sovereign authority, sovereign creator, sovereign judge of all things.

This whole battle over how much of who's will is involved is a distraction from the reality of the matter. Neither does it honor God.

 

The only thing I know of that Arminians agree on is that those who hold to Reformed theology are Satan incarnate and should be treated as such.

But in answer to your question, yes.

 

As funny as that is - you have a point.

There is the general sense on some of these topic areas that acrimony, and raging vitriol are the solution to every problem.

Christ taught us in Matt 16 that this is not to be the case when he tells his disciples to "beware of the leaven of the scribes and Pharisees".

He could have launched into a lot of acrimony and vitriol against his own disciples for still clinging to the traditions of men (so fully condemned in Mark 7) but instead he simply warns them gently to beware of the teaching of those that they held in such high regard.

In my book the acrimony and vitriol so often resorted to be certain posters is not at all the Bible model for the Christian.

And this is true - be they Calvinist or Arminian that resort to it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Further proving there is not a whole lot you know or add to the discussion.

 

Again, what world are we discussing .....the world as it is or the one as God will have it?

 

Both. God would have all saved for "He is not WILLING that any should perish" and yet - due to the "Free will" element that He sovereignly chose "He came to His own and His own received Him not" John 1.

God is not willing for any to perish - and yet many perish. Not because they must perish or because of some supposed arbitrary selection on the part of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You consistenly either jerk scriptures out of context as you do above by omitting the word "usward" or take scriptures addressed to saved people and treat them as though they were addressed to the lost.

 

Biblicist -

My two previous posts on this thread were from John 1 and Mark 7 and 2Peter 3. If you wildly imagine a missing "usward" in those posts as if a Bible writer had said "God does not love the World he just loves us" - please show it.

If you are just ranting a do not expect to be taken seriously -- well... you have the free will to make such choices.

In the mean time "God so loved the WORLD... yes really!" needs to be taken into consideration.

in Christ,

Bob

 

No not me - the Bible does. For example 1John 2:2

2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

No not me - but the Bible does. For example 2 Peter 3


9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance

Yet as we see in John 1 "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him NOT"

So also in the case of Matt 23 Where Christ said "O Jerusalem... how I WANTED to spare your children.. but YOU would not"

Therefore Paul says we have this ministry of reconciliation and we "beg YOU on behalf of Christ - be reconciled to God"

God's foreknowledge never vanishes the way that Calvinists sometimes imagine. In the Bible we are told "Pharaoh hardened his heart" and also that "God hardened Pharaoh's heart". Both are true - because God turned up the heat on Pharaoh slowly allowing him to harden his heart gradually. But even the mixed multitude that followed along with Israel - were not hardened in that manner.

The remnant result --- is the result of the choosing of individuals - not the rejection of God.

God never says "sure I could have called more to repentance and they would be saved - but I just don't feel like saving so many - I want a good portion to burn in hell".

Only if you did not understand the Lev 16 doctrine that God gives on the subject of Atonement.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You make a great Demoncratic politician but a poor Bible theologion. Sorry I am not going to take the bait of your false dichotomy of either or as your whole statement is false. The world that God loves is a world of all races, genders and classes - all without distinction not all without exception and the absolute proof is not only God hated Esau but hates all WORKERS of iniquity and hell was full of them under the wrath of God when these verses were written.

Second, the term "usward" is found in the 1 Peter 3 verse which you repeatedly omit and thus pervert the text.

Third, John 1 is speaking of the physical world as all humans are spoken of as coming into this world due to physical life/light (Jn. 1:4) given to them by their creator and those who do receive him (v. 12) is due to spiritual life given them by their Creator (v. 13). Those referred to his "own" refer to the ethnic nation of Israel who rejected him as a whole.

As for Mark 7, that fits SDA perfectly and the false prophet Ellen G. White and her false prophecies and false teachings.