Featured Church Music: Traditional or Contemporary?

Here is a video: moving an audience to a standing ovation

No doubt talented, and a moving presentation.

When you have seen the video, read on.

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One doesn't need all the "hype" to move an audience of the worldly.

How much more incomprehensible is the thinking of those who would use or contend that the modern church HAS to engage in worldly music and other art forms (dance, multimedia presentations, stage shows...) to attract or set the tone for worship?

God is so unmoved by hype and glitter.

1 Peter 5 shares this as the rational of worship:

6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, 7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. 8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


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Folks, my point is to be careful that you do not use "music" as a replacement for the work of the Holy Spirit - in the assembly or in your own walk.

Music has its place, and it is not to bolster up the faith.

Music is not some benign scribble.

Tomorrow, when you worship, I suggest you ask a simple continual question throughout your day:
Do I hear your still quiet voice, Lord - in this time of worship, in this activity, while you are doing..., or, a more intrinsic question, am I merely being emotionally puffed up and deceived?

Remember the Devil prowls - and what better place than the land fillled with food already gathered - the assembly.

I am not saying you are deceived, I am saying - challenge the spirit to see if it truly be of God.

If the audience is moved to respond as the worldly do in this video, how much more susceptible is "worship" music used to deceive?

 

I don't know. I like some CCM, but check out the following two "Contemporary Christian bands" and tell me where you see God, or worship there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9L8Mm5KAfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI94bcDLPpc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI94bcDLPpc

^^^^ You wanna defend that music as "Christian", be my guest, but I'm sorry, IMHO, that is just trash.

 

Honestly I DIDN'T VIEW THE VIDEOS. Don't need to since the entire debate is subjective. So I'm not defending that particular song. Only God knows what was in the heart of those musicians.

 

I had to look up the lyrics - couldn't understand a word they sung.

Can anyone really show the lyrics are Scriptural?

"Whispers In The Dark"

Despite the lies that you're making
Your love is mine for the taking
My love is
Just waiting
To turn your tears to roses

Despite the lies that you're making
Your love is mine for the taking
My love is
Just waiting
To turn your tears to roses

I will be the one that's gonna hold you
I will be the one that you run to
My love is
A burning, consuming fire

[Chorus:]
No
You'll never be alone
When darkness comes I'll light the night with stars
Hear the whispers in the dark
No
You'll never be alone
When darkness comes you know I'm never far
Hear the whispers in the dark
Whispers in the dark

You feel so lonely and ragged
You lay here broken and naked
My love is
Just waiting
To clothe you in crimson roses

I will be the one that's gonna find you
I will be the one that's gonna guide you
My love is
A burning, consuming fire

[Chorus x2]

Whispers in the dark [x3]


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I am not about to waist time pointing out the lack of Scriptural understanding that in EVERY case the "consumming fire is used in the Scriptures it speaks of the judgment of God upon unrighteousness.

That this song presents "consuming fire" as something the believer wants in their life is just flat deceitful.

Hillsong has a song called Consuming Fire. It may sound so righteous, but Scripturally, it is very, very bad theologically and may even rise to being deceitful.

Isaiah 33:

Sinners in Zion are terrified; Trembling has seized the godless. "Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?"
​

Yet, these songs want the believer to embrace such a god?

Really????:BangHead:


And look at the audience - they love it!!!

So deceived!

 

Ah, Skillet. Love them and that song, but only a handful of their songs could really be considered worship songs.
Many of their songs are purposely made to be taken as either secular or Christian--whichever the listener prefers. (Their latest album released this summer has a few songs with a bit more explicitly Christian themes.) Whether this is a good idea or not...well, there are different opinions on that.
As I said, tons of variety. Don't like how one band does things or their theology, chances are there's another that you'll agree more with. (Assuming one is alright with CCM at all, of course.) Not much different from how there are differences on specifics between different churches and denominations, really.

IMO even if the band members and song writers aren't living for God like they should be, God can still use their songs in some way or another. God is God, He can do as He pleases.

Aside, ubderstanding the lyrics is no problem if you're used to the style of music. At first I had to look up the lyrics constantly before I could understand thrm. Now not so much.​

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

To the believer such as this topic is NEVER to be a matter of preference making something right or wrong.

Rather, such is ALWAYS to be a matter of Scripture principle and doctrine.

If this is an example of what is acceptable to the modern believer, it is no wonder that they will wilt in the day of adversity. They have no real relationship with the guidance of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God.

The believer stands on the Scripture and Scripture principle. There is nothing else but sinking sand, false views, and deceitfulness.

 

The only true definition of traditional of a New Testament church would be how the members worshipped in song in the first century. It was probably from the Psalms accompanied by instruments like the flute, oboe, and harp. The tunes would indeed sound strange to us and we would not like them.

This cycle has been gone through probably several dozen times since the time of Christ. The latest one is the music in books like the "Baptist Hymnal" and the newer contemporary style.

Personally I prefer the hymns in the hymnal. However, that has nothing to do with what is the best music with which to worship the Lord. Those hymns are not sacred. They are familiar, but not sacred. They are just songs written by talented people between 1750-1950 for the most part. What you or I like or dislike is immaterial. I will guarantee you that you would not have liked the music of the first century, in fact, it probably would have sounded like pure noise. No doubt this is a lot of people's opinion of the modern worship music. Most of the time dislike of the modern music is a function of when you were born.

What I am trying to get across is, we have probably been through this at least twenty times since Christ. This particular transitioning from traditional to contemporary is old news. Remember the movie "Groundhog Day."

The reason I do not like the modern music is because I did not grow up with it, and am not familiar with it. I have even heard people complain that the modern music is on giant screens on the wall, and not holding a book.

We have to keep a perspective on things and realize many cycles of this had already passed before we were ever born.

 

Y'know, worship leaders will tell you that your focus shouldn't be on the music.
This summer at camp Impact, there was a message on idols one night.
And that message was very impactful to me (no pun intended)--it hit right where it hurt. Because I tend to get obsessed with fictional media and it sometimes cuts into my devotion and prayer time.

But during the closing songs, the worship leader --forgot who he was, but he was a CCM artist--was talking about how anything can be an idol. Worship music can be an idol. The emotion of worship can be an idol--if you are worshipping the emotion instead of God. (I've found worship to be an emotional experience, but you shouldn't rely on the emotion.) He really encouraged you to search out your heart and see what wasn't of God.
And then something clicked for me--at the time I wasn't able to get into an attitude of worship. And what he said made me realize that maybe I was concentrating on the music too much to do that.

I'm very young, just barely out of my teens, but I've been a Christian a long time. I know God's voice. I've worshipped to hymns. I've worshipped to CCW and CCM. I've had worshipful times without music--and those times often made me want to sing what praise songs I knew. No music. Just my voice.

Up until earlier this year I went to a church that condemned any music but hymns. I used to go along with the condemning, because my parents had raised me to be that way.
My church gave out tracts that scared me into not touching CCM with a 10 foot pole. But then later on I began to think more for myself and check things out, and found that what the tracts were saying did not reflect all of CCM. And honestly, some of it's claims were pretty far fetched, too.

But when I checked out CCM, I did do carefully. I was very careful about what I listened to, the lyrics, and the meaning behind the songs. I did pray about it. I was in the fence for a while.

You don't have to believe me or agree with me--if everyone agreed with me I would never learn anything. But please do not outright call me a liar or deceived. I've been all over these bases with myself.
Please do not proceed to tell me that because I accept CCM means I've never known God and and am deceived. I will not be told that all God has done for me throughout the hard times in my life and all that I have experienced and learned from following His guidance, that my very salvation and the day I decided to fully commit my life to God--dating from long before I listened to or approved of CCM--has been some elaborate lie.
I understand if you must have your doubts--really, I've harbored the same sort of thoughts towards others at some point in my life and sometimes still do.
But as for me, only myself and God truly know if my walk with Him is real or not. Fortunately, the only approval I need is God's.

 

That's cool.

Personally if a song isn't suitable for worship but not morally wrong, I use it as just a fun song to listen to. I save the songs made for an attitude of worship for worship.
If I have reason to disagree with the lyrics, I don't have to agree with it or listen to it.

There is no thing done by man that is perfectly flawless--this is true whether we're talking about CCM or hymns, or anything else that arises out of mankind's imperfect attempts to express how much God means to him.
So yes, discretion is needed. But no one, and I mean no one, is going to agree with even his best friend completely. There's just too much we as humans are unsure about. This is naturally reflected in music, and since not even spirit filled Christians can agree on everything, this is true for Christian music as well.

P. S.
I also happen to think that trying to attract the unchurched for the purpose of evangelism--and using what may appeal to them to do it--is perfectly fine so long as the focus is not on those things.
But I understand that's debatable.

 

One of Skillet's old songs (from 1999, I believe):

Sometime in the early 2000's they shifted their approach to be able to reach the secular market. Whether this was a good move or not...well, again, there are different opinions.
Some of their more recent songs are still pretty clearly Christian--"Forgiven", for example.

Even so, Skillet definitely does not represent all of CCM.
Try looking up Tenth Avenue North, David Crowder, Jeremy Camp--I already mentioned Casting Crowns--and there are others that don't come to mind at the moment. But out of these bands, honestly, their songs are anything but theologically and doctrinally shallow.

 

Yes, we get it. If it's not an Hymn beware, it's of the devil.

 

Don't hurt yourself too bad banging your head over an out of context, cherry-picked passage here. It doesn't support you nor your theory nor does it prove a thing against this praise song by Hillsong.

God as a consuming fire is not what YOU make it out to be nor is it constrained to YOUR proof texted passage. Your behavior here is nothing short of the same behavior of the uninformed 'funny-mentalists' who give Christendom a black eye. Your only support is your own subjective opinion, so stop misusing Scripture as if it supports you.

It doesn't.

What you've done is develop a bias, then searched for a verse to support it. There is no way the Scripture you quote supports you, and besides this you have your apologetic and theology exactly backwards.

That said, perhaps they mean Dt. 9:3, yet YOU need to find a negative connotation and use this as proof they are wrong. You've handled the Word here deceitfully (2 Cor. 4:2) in order to support your bias and disdain for CCM and those who sing and like it.

Not quite. Not everyone believes your yanked from context scriptures used to support your disdain for others. Yes, for others and for their worship music.

 

Here are the lyrics of 'Consuming Fire' by Hillsong:

Sounds to me like believers wanting more of God. This is probably akin to the likes of Whitefield, the Wesley's and other revivalists praying for more of God.

 

Ah, I see the first video is of Red. I wanted to see then so bad at Winter Jam, but this year I didn't get in because the place was so packed.
Ah well, I did get to see them at Rock the Universe. Stood out there packed inside a huge crowd like a sardine in a can--my feet were already killing me, and although being in front of the stage for once was a cool experience I needed to sit down for a while afterwards. lol

But yeah, Red and Skillet are awesome, especially if you love hard rock like I do, but their songs don't seem to be written for the purpose of worship.
I mean, I can think of a few exceptions--Skillet's "Forgiven", Red's "Pieces", Red's "Forever" (if I could put a song to my testimony that would probably be it), Skillet's "Hard to Find" (youth group planning on playing that in church), Skillet's "What I Believe", among a few others--but otherwise they are just those bands that you can jam to as an alternative to secular music.

And yes--I am familiar enough with CCM to say that much of it is a Christianized form of music entertainment. Take that as you will. I personally think that it has it's place, but...eh. Some may disagree. That's cool.

CCW--Christian Contemporary Worship--implies music more geared toward worship. Not all CCM is CCW--but much of it is, and there are bands that stick to CCW for the most part and bands that do both.

 

Good comeback!!!

First of all, I want to emphasize again I like the hymnal music better. That is not the question. Who do we think we are declaring the hymnal songs better or worse than the music coming out today. Some posters in this thread already have made a reasonable case the depth of the wording is similar. I will tell you what the has been old goats do not like (most are not even aware of the wording), they do not like the beat of the newer music. They do not like not holding the almighty hymnal in their hands as they have for fifty years. That is the kind of nonsense decisions are made on. Holding the book and the tempo of the music are not sound doctrinal reasons for preferring either type. Also, a third reason, some have it in their minds a piano and organ are good, and that drums, guitars, band praise groups are evil. These would have fit in really well at the Salem witch trials.

And, if one wants to talk about shallow, look at some of the Gospel song lyrics. Lets start off with a song sung by Bobby Bare, "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goalposts of Life." We can follow that up by "turn on the Master's Radio, get in touch with God." How does "meeting you in the morning," "flying away," or "flying past Mars" as we rise have to do with worship or advancing sound doctrine? "Bye and bye" is still a mystery to me. It is really a cute trick that Michael can row the boat ashore, but doubt it contributes much to the work of the Lord. How does one "have a little talk with Jesus?" How does that differ from a big talk.

So, do not even criticize the modern music if you turn right around and listen to this garbage.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9L8Mm5KAfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI94bcDLPpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6b602vbEGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-LZXxCSmdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wzhcyKdxpo

^^^^^^ I'm still waiting for someone to try and defend that trash as Christian music. You can't be serious. I have a friend who takes his grandaughters to WinterJam every year. He tries to tell me it's a "Christian concert". What part? I've yet to see ANYTHING Godly looking at all. What I see is so called "Christians" trying to imitate "the world".

 

I consider it Christian music. *shrug*
I'm familiar with most of those bands and artists and they have some good songs. The one or two I don't know too well I do know OF, and I saw them at Winter Jam either last year or this year when some of the artists came outside to sing for those who weren't able to make it inside.

What exactly do you think is wrong with it? That not all of the songs are necessarily geared to be praise songs, or that the way the artists dress doesn't fit your definition of Christian dress?


I've found that Christians dress and act in a variety of ways. I know Christians who have tattoos and earrings and piercings who are more spiritual and on fire for God than a lot of other Christians I know, including myself.
Christians can and do have different opinions on what things are allowed and what are not. That they may have different views on these things in light of scripture than you doesn't make them somehow unChristian.

 

You're acting like you've won an argument that no one has responded to nor opposed you on.

See what I mean? :wavey:

And, by the way, 'You' whom exactly?

Oh, so you place Christians in quotations and cast doubt on their being born-again. Tread lightly. Just because their tastes and allowances aren't the same as YOURS doesn't imply 'not saved'.

Yes, we get it from you to, you don't like the sound and/or words, yet Southern Gospel imitates the sound of a honky tonk and much of it is not sound theologically. Some I know won't listen to it because it sounds to them like the same worldly beat of carnal country music. Many hymns aren't Biblically correct either. People in churches singing lies and mistruths.

And some of those hymns!!!!! Repeating the same chorus over again several times is OK. But add a guitar, or another instrument (drums maybe) 'change' the date of the song from 1800 to 2000+, and repeat a few lines as a hymn does and all of a sudden it's 'vain repetition' and of the devil to boot. :laugh:

Those are just a few of the inconsistencies and wrong opinions of those who seemingly believe somehow there was a 'closed canon' on worship music in the past and anything new and/or different is from the abyss. :sleep: