thisnumbersdisconnected
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It is always the business of the Christian how and by what manner of character Christ is presented.
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Ergun Caner Elected President of Brewton Parker College
- Thread starter preachinjesus
- Start date
Show me in scripture where it is the business of anyone not directly involved with any of this.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Matthew 7, NASB
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits."
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits."
Matthew 15
17 "Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?
18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders."
17 "Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?
18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders."
If there is a hint Canter is guilty of any of the allegations regarding his past behaviors -- and the evidence that he is is substantial -- he is not qualified, by Jesus' own words. That is the concern of every Christian.
You are hilarious. You call "gossip" what is public and verifiable information. Then you claim there is a conspiracy by Calvinists (without any public and verifiable information to back up your statements).
You say it is none of anyone's business, yet you weigh in as if it is your business. You are angered that people are vilifying Caner and then you vilify those you accuse of vilifying.
Just comical.
What is it with you calling someone a LIBERAL whenever, and I do mean whenever, they don't agree with you?
If this man claimed to have been born in Turkey, raised a radical Islamist and in reality he was born in Sweden and raised in Ohio, there is no defense for him. None.
Is not the birth certificate iron-clad proof of his deception?
Its Caner and the evidence is not what White makes it out to be. Look back several posts I made and see what Lumpkin said about it.
Caner was a big blowhard and verbally attacked liberals and Calvinists viciously. I do not support that. But they saw blood in the water and have pounced on it largely because of White and his attack dog tactics.
Ah yes, the classic ad hominem attack, making a false allegation about me so you don't have to deal with the point I made.
I suppose standard operating proceedure for some around here is that when verifiable proof has been presented against their position or point they immediately slink to ad hominem libels of "liberal" "calvinist" or something else. Of course in my experience dealing with too many in Baptist life and the SBC this is common.
You'll also note how I have explicitly pointed out in my post that I am not Calvinist and not using Dr White's information for my points.
Ultimately we look at the accusations presented and see that there is verifiable proof that Dr Caner lied on multiple occassions, spoke deceptively to large audiences, and perpetuated a false testimony while destroying (yes...destroying) the careers of those who opposed him or who happened to hold a contrary viewpoint.
You'll also note how I have explicitly pointed out in my post that I am not Calvinist and not using Dr White's information for my points.
Ultimately we look at the accusations presented and see that there is verifiable proof that Dr Caner lied on multiple occassions, spoke deceptively to large audiences, and perpetuated a false testimony while destroying (yes...destroying) the careers of those who opposed him or who happened to hold a contrary viewpoint.
Ok let me break it down then you made an illegitimate comparison. Therefore your point was not made.
And I have presented info to the contrary.
Folks all of these so called "verifiable" accusations were vetted by a private investigation company who found no occurrences of lying. He was also vetted by a total of three schools who also agree with that. People want to think they are all lying or that you are smarter than them then go ahead.
So why the conspiracy against Caner?
He was quite the attack dog against Calvinism and liberalism. I do not support his past actions. Unfortunately he is reaping the consequences of his past actions. But that does not justify what is going on now to him. Nothing but pure vengeance. It is not so much a conspiracy as it is the mob mentality.
Ergun Caner moved to Ohio when he was four years old, after being born in Sweden. Not Turkey and not after growing up in a radicalized Madrasa there.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/Monica_Caner_affidavit.PDF
Its a legal document.
Given middle name is Michael not Mehmet.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/caner-ccw-web.pdf
Its a legal document.
Parents bought a house in Ohio in 1974. Not Turkey.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/1974property.pdf
Its a legal document.
Lived with his mother, not his father, after their divorce. His mother is not a radical Muslim living in Turkey.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/caner-decree-web.pdf
Need I point out its a legal document.
This is sufficient documentation to prove my point. We can keep going if necessary.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/Monica_Caner_affidavit.PDF
Its a legal document.
Given middle name is Michael not Mehmet.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/caner-ccw-web.pdf
Its a legal document.
Parents bought a house in Ohio in 1974. Not Turkey.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/1974property.pdf
Its a legal document.
Lived with his mother, not his father, after their divorce. His mother is not a radical Muslim living in Turkey.
http://www.witnessesuntome.com/caner/caner-decree-web.pdf
Need I point out its a legal document.
This is sufficient documentation to prove my point. We can keep going if necessary.
For example, the LU statement found after a “thorough and exhaustive” investigatory review that Dr. Caner made “factual statements that are self-contradictory.” The “discrepancies” they cited included “dates, names and places of residence.” More significantly, the investigation bore “no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager…” (emphasis added), which by all accounts was the original charge leveled against Dr. Caner first by a British Muslim, then by two Calvinists—one a Southern Baptist and the other a Hyper-Calvinist “Reformed Baptist” (//link).
Hence, on the one hand there is definitive vindication (similar to what others have dubbed exoneration); that is, Ergun Caner did not make up his life testimony. He is who he said he is. If this is so, then those who’ve likened him to Mike Warnke or other charlatans who created a fictitious background should drink their own tonic and offer public apologies. Will there be any sorrow expressed by Caner’s most aggressive critics? Those critics who’ve made practically his entire life into little more than a post-911 sham to illegitimately bilk unwary believers of their hard-earned money? He or she who possesses anything but doubt please step forward.
Nonetheless, the committee found “discrepancies” within the larger picture of Dr. Caner’s public life--“dates, names and places of residence.” No details were offered. From my perspective, that’s good and bad. I for one do not need to know all the details.
http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/pe...-and-lessons-i-learned-by-peter-lumpkins.html
Hence, on the one hand there is definitive vindication (similar to what others have dubbed exoneration); that is, Ergun Caner did not make up his life testimony. He is who he said he is. If this is so, then those who’ve likened him to Mike Warnke or other charlatans who created a fictitious background should drink their own tonic and offer public apologies. Will there be any sorrow expressed by Caner’s most aggressive critics? Those critics who’ve made practically his entire life into little more than a post-911 sham to illegitimately bilk unwary believers of their hard-earned money? He or she who possesses anything but doubt please step forward.
Nonetheless, the committee found “discrepancies” within the larger picture of Dr. Caner’s public life--“dates, names and places of residence.” No details were offered. From my perspective, that’s good and bad. I for one do not need to know all the details.
http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/pe...-and-lessons-i-learned-by-peter-lumpkins.html
Converted Muslim, Dr. Ergun Caner has been under attack by extreme Muslims and others who have challenged his integrity and character, claiming that he was not a Muslim, let alone a devout one, and that he intentionally made false statements related to his Muslim background and conversion to Christianity. While Dr. Caner categorically denies these charges, he acknowledges making several misstatements over the past decade for which he publicly apologized on his web site in February, 2010, saying in part, I “never intentionally misled anyone…. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better.”
Ergun’s brother Emir (also a converted Muslim) who has been in the best position to know almost all the facts, writes: "Over the past year or so, my brother has sustained an unprecedented and orchestrated barrage of attacks from extreme Muslims and extreme Calvinists. The attackers first attempted to prove that Ergun (and I) were never Muslims, a lie that was easily exposed. Then, their bitter efforts alleged we were never devout Muslims, an attack that even took cheap shots at our father, his devotion to Islam, and his devotion to his family. Documentation including court records once again illustrated their lies. Finally, they are now attacking my brother's character, alleging a few incorrect statements are the equivalent of embellishment and intentional deceit. Through this entire ordeal, my brother has shown an unquestionable Christian character, asking forgiveness for any mistakes and persevering while his entire life was unbiblically placed in front of the world. As his brother, I am prouder of him today than I even was before this situation occurred. His character, integrity, and bold witness are truly an emulation of a shepherd's heart (1 Timothy 3:1-7) and an evangelist's passion (Ephesians 4:11). I am simply grateful to be his brother.”—Emir Caner, President of Truett Mc Connell College, Cleveland, GA.
Liberty University (where Dr. Caner teaches) announced: “After a thorough and exhaustive review of Dr. Caner’s public statements, a committee consisting of four members of Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has concluded that Dr. Caner had made factual statements that are self-contradictory. However, the Committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager…. Dr. Caner will remain on the faculty of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary as a Professor.” ---Liberty University Statement (June 29, 2010, emphasis added)
While Caner’s exoneration* from the false charges has not satisfied all his critics, who continue to rehash old criticism, a flood of support has come in for him from noted Christian leaders and others around the country:
“Kregel Publications has concluded that the Kregel titles by Dr. Caner are trustworthy, factually accurate, and helpful to both Christians and seekers wanting to know more about Islamic beliefs and how those beliefs compare and contrast with biblical Christianity.” ---Kregel Release July 6, 2010
“[TV host] John F. Ankerberg, who interviewed Caner for more than a dozen television programs, has posted on his website that he is disheartened by the attacks upon his friend’s integrity and character. Ankerberg said he believes Caner’s testimony is ‘completely true.’” ---Christianity Today, posted 7/02/2010
“ In a day of negativism and bad news, I am rejoicing today over many things. I rejoice over faithful witnesses of Jesus in a small Ohio Baptist church that loved two Moslem boys to Christ and then encouraged them to live for Jesus. I am grateful to God for the many people that have come to Christ through the witness of those two men. I continually thank God for His unbelievable plan to use sinners and mistake-prone men like the Caners, and even more amazing, people like me, to accomplish some things of great value in His kingdom business. Only eternity will reveal the good that two former Moslems have done. I thank God for them both.”--- Paige Pattersonn, president of Southwestern Baptist Seminary, Fort Worth, Texas
“I know Dr. Caner and have done a number of apologetics conferences with him, and have witnessed God using Ergun in a powerful way. He has always spoken words of grace to others, and I thus find it disturbing that some have chosen to show NO grace to Ergun in the midst of his current trial. If God only used perfect vessels, who among us would be qualified? I know of none. I urge all those who respect my work to take the word of someone who knows Ergun personally (me): He is a good man with a heart for God.” ---Dr. Ron Rhodes, author and President of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries
Apologist Dr. Norman Geisler declared: “We posted complete and detailed response to criticisms against Dr. Caner on our website (www.normgeisler.com).” He concluded that, “Having examined all these charges against Dr. Caner carefully and having looked at the related evidence, I can say without hesitation that all of the moral charges against Dr. Caner are unsubstantiated. Further, no one had demonstrated moral intent on any of the factual misstatements he made (which we all make).” He added, “Dr. Caner is a man of honesty, integrity, and loyalty to Christ.”---Dr. Norman Geisler, author and Professor of Apologetics at Veritas Evangelical Seminary
“Dr. Geisler’s response to the charges brought against Dr. Ergun Caner by some Muslims and other groups has hit the mark. The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions. Dr. Geisler’s responses serve to confirm what I had already known about Dr. Caner’s sincere character and tireless efforts to reach the lost with the gospel and equip Christians to defend the faith in a hostile world. Dr. Geisler and Dr. Caner are the two spiritual warriors I would most like next to me in the trenches doing battle for the cause of Christ.” ---Dr. Joseph Holden, President of Veritas Evangelical Seminary, Murrieta, CA
*“Tim Rogers of SBC Today (A Southern Baptist news organ), declared and defended his claim that Ergun Caner was “exonerated” of the charge against him by citing Merriam-Webster’s definition “to clear from accusation or blame.” He wrote, I used “exoneration” in the post announcing the completed investigation of Dr. Ergun Caner…. If one looks at the definition and then looks at the statement released from Liberty University, one has to admit that exoneration is not a stretch. Why? Notice what the statement says; “the committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager [which was the claim challenged by the critics]….Thus, I used the term “exoneration” because according to the statement released by the committee from Liberty University they cleared him from accusation or blame” (Posted June 29, 2010).
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Ergun’s brother Emir (also a converted Muslim) who has been in the best position to know almost all the facts, writes: "Over the past year or so, my brother has sustained an unprecedented and orchestrated barrage of attacks from extreme Muslims and extreme Calvinists. The attackers first attempted to prove that Ergun (and I) were never Muslims, a lie that was easily exposed. Then, their bitter efforts alleged we were never devout Muslims, an attack that even took cheap shots at our father, his devotion to Islam, and his devotion to his family. Documentation including court records once again illustrated their lies. Finally, they are now attacking my brother's character, alleging a few incorrect statements are the equivalent of embellishment and intentional deceit. Through this entire ordeal, my brother has shown an unquestionable Christian character, asking forgiveness for any mistakes and persevering while his entire life was unbiblically placed in front of the world. As his brother, I am prouder of him today than I even was before this situation occurred. His character, integrity, and bold witness are truly an emulation of a shepherd's heart (1 Timothy 3:1-7) and an evangelist's passion (Ephesians 4:11). I am simply grateful to be his brother.”—Emir Caner, President of Truett Mc Connell College, Cleveland, GA.
Liberty University (where Dr. Caner teaches) announced: “After a thorough and exhaustive review of Dr. Caner’s public statements, a committee consisting of four members of Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has concluded that Dr. Caner had made factual statements that are self-contradictory. However, the Committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager…. Dr. Caner will remain on the faculty of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary as a Professor.” ---Liberty University Statement (June 29, 2010, emphasis added)
While Caner’s exoneration* from the false charges has not satisfied all his critics, who continue to rehash old criticism, a flood of support has come in for him from noted Christian leaders and others around the country:
“Kregel Publications has concluded that the Kregel titles by Dr. Caner are trustworthy, factually accurate, and helpful to both Christians and seekers wanting to know more about Islamic beliefs and how those beliefs compare and contrast with biblical Christianity.” ---Kregel Release July 6, 2010
“[TV host] John F. Ankerberg, who interviewed Caner for more than a dozen television programs, has posted on his website that he is disheartened by the attacks upon his friend’s integrity and character. Ankerberg said he believes Caner’s testimony is ‘completely true.’” ---Christianity Today, posted 7/02/2010
“ In a day of negativism and bad news, I am rejoicing today over many things. I rejoice over faithful witnesses of Jesus in a small Ohio Baptist church that loved two Moslem boys to Christ and then encouraged them to live for Jesus. I am grateful to God for the many people that have come to Christ through the witness of those two men. I continually thank God for His unbelievable plan to use sinners and mistake-prone men like the Caners, and even more amazing, people like me, to accomplish some things of great value in His kingdom business. Only eternity will reveal the good that two former Moslems have done. I thank God for them both.”--- Paige Pattersonn, president of Southwestern Baptist Seminary, Fort Worth, Texas
“I know Dr. Caner and have done a number of apologetics conferences with him, and have witnessed God using Ergun in a powerful way. He has always spoken words of grace to others, and I thus find it disturbing that some have chosen to show NO grace to Ergun in the midst of his current trial. If God only used perfect vessels, who among us would be qualified? I know of none. I urge all those who respect my work to take the word of someone who knows Ergun personally (me): He is a good man with a heart for God.” ---Dr. Ron Rhodes, author and President of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries
Apologist Dr. Norman Geisler declared: “We posted complete and detailed response to criticisms against Dr. Caner on our website (www.normgeisler.com).” He concluded that, “Having examined all these charges against Dr. Caner carefully and having looked at the related evidence, I can say without hesitation that all of the moral charges against Dr. Caner are unsubstantiated. Further, no one had demonstrated moral intent on any of the factual misstatements he made (which we all make).” He added, “Dr. Caner is a man of honesty, integrity, and loyalty to Christ.”---Dr. Norman Geisler, author and Professor of Apologetics at Veritas Evangelical Seminary
“Dr. Geisler’s response to the charges brought against Dr. Ergun Caner by some Muslims and other groups has hit the mark. The charges on the surface sounds formidable until they are met with TRUTH, then they quickly evaporate away losing all power to condemn – leaving the accusers to contemplate their actions. Dr. Geisler’s responses serve to confirm what I had already known about Dr. Caner’s sincere character and tireless efforts to reach the lost with the gospel and equip Christians to defend the faith in a hostile world. Dr. Geisler and Dr. Caner are the two spiritual warriors I would most like next to me in the trenches doing battle for the cause of Christ.” ---Dr. Joseph Holden, President of Veritas Evangelical Seminary, Murrieta, CA
*“Tim Rogers of SBC Today (A Southern Baptist news organ), declared and defended his claim that Ergun Caner was “exonerated” of the charge against him by citing Merriam-Webster’s definition “to clear from accusation or blame.” He wrote, I used “exoneration” in the post announcing the completed investigation of Dr. Ergun Caner…. If one looks at the definition and then looks at the statement released from Liberty University, one has to admit that exoneration is not a stretch. Why? Notice what the statement says; “the committee found no evidence to suggest that Dr. Caner was not a Muslim who converted to Christianity as a teenager [which was the claim challenged by the critics]….Thus, I used the term “exoneration” because according to the statement released by the committee from Liberty University they cleared him from accusation or blame” (Posted June 29, 2010).
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
1. Ergun Caner claimed to have been born in Istanbul when he was actually born in Sweden.
Response: All of Caner’s books (see Unveiling Islam, 17) and nearly all of his interviews and sermons state that he was born in Sweden. Since both Ergun and his father were Turkish citizens, he strongly identified with that ancestry. Thus, an occasional misspoken word about his birthplace is understandable. Nonetheless, Ergun publically apologized for this and other mistakes on February 25, 2010 (see “Sixth” below).
2. Caner claimed to have once lived in Ankara (Turkey) and along the Iraqi border which he did not.
Response: Ergun traveled with his father to Turkey several times. Later, he was along the Iraqi border as he said he was. It should not be deemed strange that Ergun has spent time in Turkey. After all, he has a Turkish father and was a Turkish citizen who came to America on a Turkish passport. This allegation against him is a mere assumption without evidence which illustrates the desire to defame Ergun by his critics.
3. He claimed to have watched Dukes of Hazard and longed to marry Daisy Duke while growing up in Turkey before the show was even on TV in 1979.
Response: This statement was intended as humor and was taken as such by the audience. Indeed, Ergun has made this joke for more than a decade and never once was it taken as a matter of fact. He was illustrating the misconceptions between Americans and Muslims.
4. He claimed in one place to have become a US citizenship in 1978 and in another place he claimed that it was in 1982.
Response: It is well known that Caner became a US citizen in 1978. The other date is from the period of his call to the ministry and is sometimes lumped together with the earlier date in his testimony. No intent to deceive existed, nor has it been established by this conflation of dates. Since it is well known by Bible scholars that this kind of thing is found in the Scriptures (which are without error), then any Christian pressing this charge would, by the same logic, have to impugn the Bible as well (see The Bible Knowledge Commentary, vol. 2, p. 40).
5. Caner claims to have worn a Muslim "keffiyeh"(head covering) before his conversion to Christianity, yet photos show him with his head uncovered. This reveals that he was not a devout Muslim and that he intended to deceive when claiming to be one.
Response: Ergun’s brother Emir vouches for their devout Muslim background. He has provided a picture (below) of Ergun with his head covered (sitting down). Of course, there were other times when he had no covering on which would be natural.
Description: Macintosh HD
rivate:var:folders:Uo:UomQ7vEkEh0xMokg2ZSt8kBAb0Q:TemporaryItemshoto.jpg
Other evidence of his being a devout Muslim is available, such as Ergun’s circumcision ceremony and participation in the reading and recitation of the Qur’an. Further, that Ergun was reared a devout Muslim is proven by his father’s testimony recorded in the divorce proceedings documents which ironically Ergun’s critic placed on the internet.
6. Ergun claims he was saved in 1982 but also claims his brother Emir was converted in 1982, yet elsewhere Emir’s conversion is said to be a year later (1983).
Response: Both men agree that Emir was saved a year after Ergun. There is some confusion about the exact year. Given that Ergun was converted in 1982 (as he claims), this would put Emir’s conversion “a year later” (as they both acknowledge). Again, there is no intention to deceive here but simply a problem of memory about exact dates.
7. Ergun claimed his father had many wives and two half-brothers and two half-sisters, but there is no evidence for the half-brothers.
Response: Ergun’s father did have two wives, having divorced the first one. He had three sons by his first wife (Ergun and his two brothers). So, Ergun has two full brothers and two step-sisters (from his father’s second wife). While speaking quickly on one occasion, he mistakenly called his brothers his “half” brothers. This is hardly evidence of an attempt to embellish or deceive. After all, he had the right number of each sibling, and he didn’t claim to have ten brothers or sisters!
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Response: All of Caner’s books (see Unveiling Islam, 17) and nearly all of his interviews and sermons state that he was born in Sweden. Since both Ergun and his father were Turkish citizens, he strongly identified with that ancestry. Thus, an occasional misspoken word about his birthplace is understandable. Nonetheless, Ergun publically apologized for this and other mistakes on February 25, 2010 (see “Sixth” below).
2. Caner claimed to have once lived in Ankara (Turkey) and along the Iraqi border which he did not.
Response: Ergun traveled with his father to Turkey several times. Later, he was along the Iraqi border as he said he was. It should not be deemed strange that Ergun has spent time in Turkey. After all, he has a Turkish father and was a Turkish citizen who came to America on a Turkish passport. This allegation against him is a mere assumption without evidence which illustrates the desire to defame Ergun by his critics.
3. He claimed to have watched Dukes of Hazard and longed to marry Daisy Duke while growing up in Turkey before the show was even on TV in 1979.
Response: This statement was intended as humor and was taken as such by the audience. Indeed, Ergun has made this joke for more than a decade and never once was it taken as a matter of fact. He was illustrating the misconceptions between Americans and Muslims.
4. He claimed in one place to have become a US citizenship in 1978 and in another place he claimed that it was in 1982.
Response: It is well known that Caner became a US citizen in 1978. The other date is from the period of his call to the ministry and is sometimes lumped together with the earlier date in his testimony. No intent to deceive existed, nor has it been established by this conflation of dates. Since it is well known by Bible scholars that this kind of thing is found in the Scriptures (which are without error), then any Christian pressing this charge would, by the same logic, have to impugn the Bible as well (see The Bible Knowledge Commentary, vol. 2, p. 40).
5. Caner claims to have worn a Muslim "keffiyeh"(head covering) before his conversion to Christianity, yet photos show him with his head uncovered. This reveals that he was not a devout Muslim and that he intended to deceive when claiming to be one.
Response: Ergun’s brother Emir vouches for their devout Muslim background. He has provided a picture (below) of Ergun with his head covered (sitting down). Of course, there were other times when he had no covering on which would be natural.
Description: Macintosh HD
rivate:var:folders:Uo:UomQ7vEkEh0xMokg2ZSt8kBAb0Q:TemporaryItemshoto.jpgOther evidence of his being a devout Muslim is available, such as Ergun’s circumcision ceremony and participation in the reading and recitation of the Qur’an. Further, that Ergun was reared a devout Muslim is proven by his father’s testimony recorded in the divorce proceedings documents which ironically Ergun’s critic placed on the internet.
6. Ergun claims he was saved in 1982 but also claims his brother Emir was converted in 1982, yet elsewhere Emir’s conversion is said to be a year later (1983).
Response: Both men agree that Emir was saved a year after Ergun. There is some confusion about the exact year. Given that Ergun was converted in 1982 (as he claims), this would put Emir’s conversion “a year later” (as they both acknowledge). Again, there is no intention to deceive here but simply a problem of memory about exact dates.
7. Ergun claimed his father had many wives and two half-brothers and two half-sisters, but there is no evidence for the half-brothers.
Response: Ergun’s father did have two wives, having divorced the first one. He had three sons by his first wife (Ergun and his two brothers). So, Ergun has two full brothers and two step-sisters (from his father’s second wife). While speaking quickly on one occasion, he mistakenly called his brothers his “half” brothers. This is hardly evidence of an attempt to embellish or deceive. After all, he had the right number of each sibling, and he didn’t claim to have ten brothers or sisters!
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Finally, a Note about Ergun’s Critic:
First, Ergun is an outspoken converted Muslim which in Muslim lands is a capital crime. Since this is contrary to law in the United States, his Muslim critics have resorted to character assassination instead. Unfortunately, other extremists who disagree with some of his theological views have piled on and are kicking him while he is down.
Second, a blogger-critic refuses to give his real name, using a pseudonym. This violates a moral and legal rule that one has a right to face his accusers. [This is also a good way to avoid libel charges.]
Third, his critics often assume, contrary to American law, that one is guilty until proven innocent. Really, the burden of proof for these allegations is on the accuser, not on the accused.
Fourth, not one of these accusations is about any serious doctrinal or moral issue. Ergun has never been found guilty of either of these.
Fifth, out of a couple thousand sermons, nearly twenty books, and hundreds of media interviews, the relatively few mistakes are trivial by comparison. It is like looking at a glass 97% full and complaining that it is 3% empty! I am sure that anyone who wished to do a search on other leaders who have communicated as much in the past decade or so could do a hatchet job on some of them too.
Sixth, Ergun has readily admitted the mistakes he has made and has apologized for them publically. In February, 2010, he said in part on his Web site that he “never intentionally misled anyone…. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better.” Even the public statement made by Liberty University on June 29, 2010 made this clear when it said, “Dr. Caner has cooperated with the Board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review.”
Seventh, by comparison, his critics have not apologized for anything they have done, even though they have wrongly: a) assumed Ergun’s guilt without proof, b) impugned his intentions, and c) assassinated his character. This is to say nothing of the pain, misery, and agony they have afflicted on Ergun, his family, and the problems this has caused at Liberty University. For this they owe Dr. Caner a clear and contrite public apology.
Finally, his critics have not followed the instructions of Matthew 18 by going first to their brother and then to his church privately on these allegations. Rather, they have practiced unbiblical gossip in passing on defaming charges about another brother in Christ to others—indeed, making these charges public.
My experience with Ergun, as that of those who know him well, is that he is a devout zealous believer who lives a life in obedience to Christ and who works diligently to extend his kingdom. It is a crying shame that other believers have jumped on a band-wagon which is discrediting this sincere, earnest, and faithful follower of Christ.
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
First, Ergun is an outspoken converted Muslim which in Muslim lands is a capital crime. Since this is contrary to law in the United States, his Muslim critics have resorted to character assassination instead. Unfortunately, other extremists who disagree with some of his theological views have piled on and are kicking him while he is down.
Second, a blogger-critic refuses to give his real name, using a pseudonym. This violates a moral and legal rule that one has a right to face his accusers. [This is also a good way to avoid libel charges.]
Third, his critics often assume, contrary to American law, that one is guilty until proven innocent. Really, the burden of proof for these allegations is on the accuser, not on the accused.
Fourth, not one of these accusations is about any serious doctrinal or moral issue. Ergun has never been found guilty of either of these.
Fifth, out of a couple thousand sermons, nearly twenty books, and hundreds of media interviews, the relatively few mistakes are trivial by comparison. It is like looking at a glass 97% full and complaining that it is 3% empty! I am sure that anyone who wished to do a search on other leaders who have communicated as much in the past decade or so could do a hatchet job on some of them too.
Sixth, Ergun has readily admitted the mistakes he has made and has apologized for them publically. In February, 2010, he said in part on his Web site that he “never intentionally misled anyone…. For those times where I misspoke, said it wrong, scrambled words, or was just outright confusing, I apologize and will strive to do better.” Even the public statement made by Liberty University on June 29, 2010 made this clear when it said, “Dr. Caner has cooperated with the Board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review.”
Seventh, by comparison, his critics have not apologized for anything they have done, even though they have wrongly: a) assumed Ergun’s guilt without proof, b) impugned his intentions, and c) assassinated his character. This is to say nothing of the pain, misery, and agony they have afflicted on Ergun, his family, and the problems this has caused at Liberty University. For this they owe Dr. Caner a clear and contrite public apology.
Finally, his critics have not followed the instructions of Matthew 18 by going first to their brother and then to his church privately on these allegations. Rather, they have practiced unbiblical gossip in passing on defaming charges about another brother in Christ to others—indeed, making these charges public.
My experience with Ergun, as that of those who know him well, is that he is a devout zealous believer who lives a life in obedience to Christ and who works diligently to extend his kingdom. It is a crying shame that other believers have jumped on a band-wagon which is discrediting this sincere, earnest, and faithful follower of Christ.
http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/ErgunCaner/
Is this what you're talking about?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/december/ergun-caner-youtubes-blocked-testimony.html
Notice who's involved:
Well, surprise surprise, here's Smathers listed on the Founders Ministries 'Founders Friendly Churches in Arizona' page:
http://www.founders.org/misc/chlist/AZ.html
And Smathers is also a member of 'FIRE' the Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals:
http://firefellowship.org/members.php?state=AZ
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I guess I just don't understand what folks are trying to accomplish by going after this man so seemingly unrelentlessly?
As Christians, if he were teaching a false Gospel, I could see folks not letting this go.
He seems to have apologized, yet folks don't want to accept his apology.
So what should he do? How long do you guys suggest he not be in a position of leadership?
As Christians, if he were teaching a false Gospel, I could see folks not letting this go.
He seems to have apologized, yet folks don't want to accept his apology.
So what should he do? How long do you guys suggest he not be in a position of leadership?