Featured Could the Fall have been Avoided as per Arminian Theology?

Your problem is that people can read.

 

Cab you support that by Scripture? If so then present it!

 

Show by Scripture that says Satan had a very good nature!

Like the other poster you are assuming facts not in evidence!

 

Not a problem...

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

At the end of six days, God looked at "every thing he had made" and behold, it was "very good".

Was Satan a created being? YES.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Again, scripture says Satan was "perfect" from the day he was "created" until iniquity was found in him.

This proves that this teaching that a person can only act according to their nature is pure falsehood. Satan was created very good, as well as the fallen angels, and Adam and Eve, and yet all chose to sin.

 

Yes, what a wonderful problem to have since I give them substance to read and you give them..............???????

 

And Jesus Christ said:

John 8:44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You are taking a passage out of context.

Ezekiel 28:11-15
11. Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12. Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

 

We have to remember that it was God's plan to have Adam fall that Jesus Christ could be glorified. This does not excuse Adam for disobedience, it does show us God's design of having both His Sovereignty and man's freewill choice work together in accomplishing His plan to glorify Jesus Christ.

" O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye Would not!"

All Jesus had to say was "ye Could not" and Calvinism might have had a fighting chance.

 

Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee

But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.

And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.

And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech betrayeth thee.

Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

When Jesus prophesied, "Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice", did he look ahead in time and see what Peter would do (having of course all knowledge of all things future), or was He in effect telling Peter what He was going to cause Peter to do? (i.e. cause Peter to forget the prophesy and then cause Peter to remember the prophesy) Not causing Peter to deny, just causing Peter to not remember and then remember. Remember, only hours have elapsed between the time Peter was told and the time Peter denied. Peter is responsible for his denying, but would Peter have denied Jesus if he had remembered Jesus' prophecy about him?

 

Your reasoning does not represent our view at all. We believe fallen man cannot ONLY because they WILL not and they WILL NOT because their heart is under the bondage of the law of sin. So inability exists ONLY because the human heart is at enmity against God. Change the enmity and that removes the inability.

 

This verse does not negate that scripture says Satan was perfect in the day he was created until iniquity was found in him sometime later. Satan was created sometime between day one and day six, and we know that at the end of day six God pronounced "every thing he had made" as very good. So Satan was very good at least until day six. It may have been many years before he sinned, we are not told.

I am not taking anything out of context. Notice that this person was in the Garden of Eden in verse 13. This could only be Satan. Notice how he is the "anointed cherub that covereth" in verse 14, and that he was upon the holy mountain of God.

This scripture is speaking of Satan. He was perfect at first, but at some point he chose to sin.

But if a person's will is enslaved to their nature, it would have been impossible for Satan, the fallen angels, and Adam and Eve to sin. This proves this teaching is complete error.

 

Substance? More like flatulence. You use ten thousand words to say nothing.

 

You have to be careful saying it was God's plan that Adam fall. Did God know Adam would sin? Yes, I believe so. Did God determine Adam would sin? NO, the scriptures tell us that God does not so much as tempt any man to sin.

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

This is where God's foreknowledge comes in. Because God knows what men will freely choose to do, he can plan according to man's free choices and not be an accessory to sin. God had planned in eternity past to redeem men through his Son Jesus Christ, but God did not ordain that men would sin, he only infallibly knew they would.

I am in complete agreement with you on Matthew 23:37, Jesus said the people of Jerusalem "would not" come to him, he did not say they "could not" as Biblicist and other Calvinists would like to teach. Would Jesus make a mistake like this? Hardly.

 

Directly, no God does not tempt man. However, indirectly???? God uses satan as a willing tool. Could satan tempt Eve without the approval of God? God would not say, "you go tempt Eve satan", but God would go as far as to point out to satan those who are found obeying God. Example - Job.

I believe the fall of man was necessary for God's plan to glorify Himself and offer a truly freewill choice to love Him or hate Him. With no knowledge of good and evil, and no knowledge of the difference between Holy and human, there could be no true praise and worship of God and what Jesus Christ has sacrificed for mankind, and no true understanding of just who is Creator and who is the created needing to be in submission to God.

 

Winman you have no idea when Satan was created. No one does because the Bible does not say.

The passage is talking about the king of Tyrus. Some have assumed the passage is descriptive of Satan but that does not make it true. You might consider reading all of Ezekiel 28 starting with verse 1 before making any great pronouncements about Satan.

No one I know of has denied that Adam and Eve had the freedom to choose whether or not to rebel against God. However, because they did rebel man has lost the ability to live a life without sin and that is an undeniable fact!

Before you make definitive statements about Satan perhaps you should consider what the Apostle Paul has to say: 2 Thessalonians 2:7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Bible really has nothing definitive to say about the origin of Satan that I know about. I believe he is a created being, subservient to God, and leave it at that!

 

I will give you the same advice I gave Winman,

Now present Scripture that really shows the nature of Satan when he was created.

 

That is not correct, we are told when the heavens were created and all the host of them;

Gen 1:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

On the sixth day God was finished creating the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them. This would include the angels.

The king of Tyrus was not present in the garden of Eden, because God chased man out and put an angel to guard it. So Ezekiel 28 is absolutely speaking of Satan.

The fact that no man lives a life without sin does not prove that man cannot do good. If men could not do good, then all men would be as evil as they possibly could be at all times.

Now you will tell me that is not so, but that is a contradiction and cannot possibly be true.

Well, I believe Ezekiel 28 is speaking of Satan. He was in the garden of Eden, and he was in heaven. He is a cherub as Ezekiel 28 says. We know he was created perfect in his ways in the day he was created until iniquity was found in him. We do not know how long after he was created that he rebelled.

I disagree with Satan being subservient to God. Satan is not God's "hit man" going about doing God's dirty deeds as some here have suggested in the past. Satan is God's adversary, his enemy, he is actively opposed to God and goes about to destroy any one he can.

Calvinists are the only persons I have every heard of who think Satan is God's servant working for him. Absurd!