Featured Do All Calvinists Hold that regeneration seperate from saved by God?

I knew you would try this bogus argument, but scripture proves you wrong.

1 Jhn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Being a son of God is not some future event we grow into. The moment you believe you are NOW a son of God.

This is why your view is easily shown to be absurd and illogical, you believe a man can be "born of God" for years, and yet not be a "son of God". This is ridiculous and total error.

 

Amen! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

No, that scripture in no way proves me wrong. My view is actually quite orthodox here:

"..."The difference between believers as "children of God" and as "sons of God" is brought out in Rom. 8:14-21. The Spirit bears witness with their spirit that they are "children of God," and, as such, they are His heirs and joint-heirs with Christ. This stresses the fact of their spiritual birth (vv. 16, 17). On the other hand, "as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God," i.e., "these and no other." Their conduct gives evidence of the dignity of their relationship and their likeness to His character." (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testaments Words, by W.E. Vine, pp. 585)..."

The Difference Between Sons of God & Children of God

 

I believe this clearly refutes the pov that we are children but not yet sons.

 

It's quite obvious if you rightly divide the scripture. To the children of God receiving Christ in Jn 1:12 He gives the power to be led by the Spirit of God and become sons of God.

It's really not complicated at all.

 

Why should I care what some man wrote? My authority is not men, but the word of God.

If you read Romans 8 it clearly shows the "sons of God" and the "children of God" are the same persons.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The word "For" beginning verse 15 connects it to verse 14 showing "ye" are the sons of God. Then in the next verse Paul, speaking to the very same persons says "our" and "we" are the children of God.

So, the "sons of God" and the "children of God" are the very same persons.

 

But you must ignore.... 1 Jhn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God,

 

This is just so plainly clear I don't know why it is being divided into two separate believers. Children of God and sons of God are one in the same through rebirth.

 

Whine and cry and complain all you want Winman, Paul made a clear distinction between children and sons, period.

The epistles present carnal Christians that are still yet babes and unable to handle the meat of the word. Nothing new or strange here.

Boy, this one really puts you into convulsions doesn't it? Jn 1:12,13 must have been one of your 'key assets' to use against evil Calvinism. Sorry bud, just ain't so.

 

double post

 

Calvinism tries to break salvation into pieces, it is the only way their doctrine can work.

So, they teach that a man is "born again" before he is a "son of God". Some, like KY here or R.C. Sproul teach that a man can walk around for decades (yes, decades) being born again before they believe on Jesus and become a son of God.

Other Calvinists say a man can momentarily be born of God, so that they are willing and able to understand the gospel before they actually believe and become sons of God. But even hearing the gospel and understanding it takes some time, even if it is only a few seconds.

Nevertheless, for those few seconds it takes to hear and understand the gospel, Calvinists believe a man is born again, but not a son of God yet.

Not only do you have the ridiculous idea of a born again person not being a son of God, but until a person believes they are still "dead" in trespasses and sins. So you also have the ridiculous position of a person being spiritually alive and spiritually dead AT THE SAME MOMENT. Wow!

Once you accept error you go right off the tracks.

 

What's to ignore? John was evidently addressing a flock that was led by the Spirit. It's really not complicated at all. You and Winman are making a big kadoo over nothing.

 

Calvinism must constantly wrest scripture, redefine words, etc...

Calvinism is consistent with itself, and I believe that is why many folks believe it. But it is not consistent with scripture whatsoever. I don't think most Calvinists understand this distinction.

People are Calvinists for the same reason folks are Mormons or JWs, because they have been taught error, and do not know the scriptures well.

 

It just simply boggles my mind that Christians want to take something so easy to read and understand and attempt to make it so complicated. Romans 8 is perfectly clear that children and sons are one in the same through rebirth.

 

If man MUST exercise his will(again, insert free will) in the new birth/born again/born from above/regeneration, then it's not the will of God that seals the deal, but man.

***taking eraser to Romans 9:16***(an apparent typo by Paul)...

 

Look, I am Willis Fletcher, Jr. At birth, I was a child of Willis, Sr. and Sharon Elizabeth Fletcher(mommy sadly died 6/14/2012). Being 42 now, I am their son now, no longer being a child.

It's not that complicated, but apparently it is?

 

So you want Christians to believe that John's letter is only for a particular class of Christians? Really??

 

If it is God's will that a man exercise his personal will in salvation, what is that to you Willis?

Can't God do that Willis? Can't God say, "I will save those who choose to believe on my son Jesus, and I will damn those who refuse to believe on my son Jesus."??

Tell me one reason God cannot do that.

 

So you was not their son at birth??

 

Ok, we're done, said about all I need to say to you.