Featured Did paul changes his mind/view of jesus, or did God do that for him?

God calls and man responds. That is true in both the Calvinist and Arminian schemas.

 

We can stop now. Coffee anyone?

 

[sigh] Saved? On the road to Damascus. Regenerated? Who knows when. He was separated from his mother's womb, Christ was already 'in him' by the time of his Damascus road experience. ('God revealed His son in me', remember?)

 

To Brothers winman, webdog, and Benjamin:

I look at these two accounts...Jonah and Paul like this. It's like your dad told you to go chop wood and bring it in for the night. You start heading that way then went and played ball with some other people. Your dad then goes and punishes you and you went and chopped the wood and brought it in.

You chose to rebel, but your dad made you change your mind. You wanted to not do it, he wanted you to, a made you do it. God told Jonah to go to Ninevah, and He meant it. He made Jonah gladly change his mind.

 

Same with Paul. God told him what to do, and by georgie, He meant it, and Paul did it.

 

Yes, "your mind". How is this different from the non-determinist view? Do you not think we give God the glory for loving influences upon which we freely choose to be obedient to Him and become adopted by Him or what? And maybe some "Jonah's" in the world would not be so glad to change "his mind".

BTW, I'd like to see you deal with Paul's suggestion that he could be disobedient. Was it that he just doesn't understand Calvinism's teachings that he had no choice???

The way you described the above I think maybe you have misinterpreted what we believe, should give up this Neo-Calvinist' hyper-determinism that is running rabid on this board and come back over to a non-fatalistic theological view of free will/human volition. Just a suggestion.

 

Thank you. Amazing how many here are neglecting the theological necessity of human volition being maintained and are unwittingly turning to hyper-deterministic explanations to uphold the TULIP.

 

BINGO!!!!! :thumbs: :applause:

So many today try to force decision into the equation, make it the clincher, then try in their next fallacious statement to say 'it is all of God'. Utter foolishness and deceit.

 

The goodness of God leads us to repentance Romans 2:4, that is, unless one doesn't believe the Scriptures that they are not free and chose somehow themselves. Perhaps said are given a quiz 'Do you decide for me or not, yes or no'? and then answer 'Yes'! and are given their reward. Dogs do the same things, they obey a command, they are rewarded with a snausage. Praise and glory to that dog, and a little to the one who commanded too.

 

Yes, I got it. You believe God's loving "offer" of genuine grace is only for those He pre-determined to "have to" act "freely" and accept the atonement that was only for His pre-selected few He had fore-chosen based on nothing but a whim during creation. :thumbs:

 

You tell me, because that represents your view. It is certainly not I who claims he was lucky enough to be one of the specially pre-selected few which God had to “force” to “freely” accept His “offer” and upon which He based His "judgment" in the matter on absolutely nothing (Deu 32:4). Since you want turn it personal, I believe it goes a bit deeper than expressing the determinist’s mindset as merely arrogant being I think they are complainers (Rom 1:21) who are speaking back to God by saying they had no real choice (Rom 9:20-22) with such doctrines, but I don’t think this discussion is worth my time being you have never demonstrated you could or are willing to even follow a thought past one premise and its off topic anyway…