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can there even be real free will apart from what God allows for?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Mar 4, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    can any created being ever possess a free will that is outside the soveregn control of his creator?

    that God still reseves to himself means to override that free will at times?
     
    #1 Yeshua1, Mar 4, 2014
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Let's see if I understand you correctly...

    Are you asking if I can surprise God?

    or

    Are you asking if I can do something God never imagined?

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Mar 4, 2014
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Useless question. Both being true still does not negate free will. The problem with hyper cals is they misunderstand both free will and the sovereignty of God. When you take everything to an extreme this is what you get.
     
    #3 Revmitchell, Mar 4, 2014
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    not a hyper cal though!

    Just asking the question if we have real free will , in the sense that we as sinners can decide to accept jesus, by ourselves, NO influence from/by God?
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Mar 4, 2014
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, rather f ANY could do anything that God would be powerless to change/affect/undo etc!

    can God get His will done regardless/in spite of our decisions that we amke?
     
    #5 Yeshua1, Mar 4, 2014
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    OK well that is much different from what I read in the op. Just because we make a choice after God opens our heart, which we could not do ourselves, does not negate free will or the sovereignty of God.
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Mar 4, 2014
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So ou would see BOTH arminians/calvinist affirming that to be true?
     
    #7 Yeshua1, Mar 4, 2014
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I do not know what arminians do. On this board non cals and hyper cals see it much differently.
     
    #8 Revmitchell, Mar 4, 2014
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    To the first question, no. Adam and Eve did have free will, and then lost it when they sinned. None since them have ever had it. But this wasn't beyond His sovereign control...

    To the second question, God doesn't have to override that which no longer exists...
     
    #9 convicted1, Mar 4, 2014
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Now, why did you ask these questions? Brother these questions only divide...
     
    #10 convicted1, Mar 4, 2014
  11. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    What you are bring in the op is not free will but a free agency. Man can only do what is in the bounds God provides.To me free will suggest man can do what ever he wants to with no boundaries. I think free will is ridiculous a free agency I believe in. Adam and Eve had no inclination to eat from the tree they were content in the boundaries they were placed in. Adam or Eve wasn't the murderer from the beginning. It was he Satan the devil that brought doubt into the world to doubt God's word. Doubt is the weapon that kills.

    Jesus says to believe in Him you will not perish but have external life don't let doubt murder you.
     
    #11 psalms109:31, Mar 5, 2014
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How would normal and hype cals differ on this issue to you?
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Mar 5, 2014
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