Featured One strike against Calvinists--Need to balance GRACE & Truth

Amen!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

I quit describing myself as a Calvinist a long time ago, mainly because it suggested that I agreed with Calvin on everything.

I didn't change my views, just the description of my views. I think I was one of the first on the BB to describe myself as DoG.

It seems to be difficult to find a shorthand description which everybody can subscribe to. You say you hold to the Doctrines of Grace, but not to TULIP. I hold to the Doctrines of Grace AND the TULIP. So I guess that makes me a TULIP DoG.

 

Just because one or two jumped ship recently doesn't mean it is the norm. In the 9 years I've been here there has been Stefanm, TCGreek, Robb Lawson and at least 2 more (Amy is on her second to around, btw) I can recall. This recent conversion is meaningless.

 

Tom Butler:

 

:laugh: I like it! TULIP DoG! :thumbs:

But obviously the Scriptures contain doctrines of Grace. Calvinist have their list of interpretations and applications for these doctrines of Grace and non-Cals have their interpretations and applications for these same doctrines of Grace.

There was a member here, I don't recall who it was, that told me I should not attempt to teach the Doctrines of Grace to another because I, being a non-Cal, would not apply or explain them correctly. For a TULIP believer, DoG belongs to TULIP, they are one in the same. If you do a Google on DoG you will find the two are defined as one in the same.

I do not like titles which pigeon hole Christians, I am a Christian, period. Some here even call me a Calvinist bc I believe in OSAS. It's funny, when my wife was first saved and went to a breakfast for the community churches she was asked by one lady what she was. Puzzled, my wife replied she was a Christian, the woman said yes but what church do you attend, my wife said it was the C&MA, the lady looked a bit dumbfounded, I guess bc she didn't know how to label my wife, and then she said, well I'm a Methodist.

Look at the title "Baptist", does it really have any value anymore? You can't just say you are a Baptist anymore bc no one really knows what that means. How many different Baptist groups are there now with different beliefs? Couple hundred?

 

I can respect that. But some labels are accurate.

I agree entirely with you here. The term Baptist is not a good descriptor whatsoever. Too many Baptists groups are in great error. I have nothing to do with them. As a credo-believer I share that with them --but little else. The bulks of my doctrinal beliefs might have more in common with conservative Christian groups who are not baptistic.

 

Your wife shoulda asked her what kinda Methodist.

 

I will not have my family exposed to any Arminian theology. Isn't going to happen. Period. I was just talking to a pastor yesterday. For me to even step foot in his church he has to agree with DoG as the correct theology and teach it. Oh and OSAS only.

 

You have indicated how very little Bible believing/preaching/teaching churches are near you. If your options are limited you should consider a less than Calvinistic assembly. You may still be blessed. Would you not even consider a church if the likes of an A.W.Tozer, F.B. Meyer, Alexander MacLaren or G.Campbell Morgan was the pastor/preacher? Wouldn't those kind of ministers of the Gospel be the kind you would gladly sit under?

 

:laugh: Good one! :thumbs:

 

Well, I agree with DoG and OSAS, but I don't know if shunning others is the way to persuade them of the truth.

Isn't it sad though, a newly born-again Christian is all fired up for following Jesus and telling others, and then they begin to learn about theologies and divisions and why there are a few hundred denominations, and somehow the life gets sapped out of them and they just craw into a little shielded hole and their enthusiasm dwindles. Are we really doing a service for Jesus Christ?

 

Absolutely not. Not if they are arminians.

Per CH Spurgeon

But Arminius's theology represented a retreat from this position (reformed theology). In some ways, Arminius's theology was actually a return to the position taken by Roman Catholicism at the Council of Trent.

So after being freed from that apostate RC Church, you think I would take steps backwards (and expose my family to it)? NEVER!

 

Are we doing them a service exposing them to false doctrine?

 

Those aren't Spurgeon's words.

 

There are some in my church that do not believe in OSAS, however, they strongly believe in the bible's doctrines of Grace. Does this mean they are false converts in some way? Is A.W. Tozer a false teacher bc he does not believe TULIP is correct theology?

 

I really don't care.....however worshiping with these people sets a bad precedent as far as I am concerned. I have to raise my family the way I believe correct, not tip my hat to Tozer or anyone else who I disagree with. So its always been my position that separation is best. I do not wish to compromise because if I do then my children will see that Ive set a precedent & then run off in another direction completely contrary to the one I raise them in. As a Old School Baptist, there are times I feel that I am even compromising by worshiping with Calvinist (who could be judgmental of my beliefs), but at least I share Doctrines of Grace with them.....I am however guarded & refuse to allow them to go to segregated programs put on by churches (separate bible studies, SS, Mens groups etc). Families are to be raised up TOGETHER in the Word & not made separate. Then it is my job & that of my wife to reinforce scripture with the younger members of the family.

It is my dream to one day start a church with old school principals, above & beyond anything in a Calvinist/Reformed Church format. And if not I will eventually move to a place that already has a Old School Church already established.

 

What....I got them off a CHS website! But even so, it wouldn't matter because I believe that taking a step into Arminism is like taking a step into Romanism. Both believe in a Universal Atonement & thats enough for me to reject them outright.

 

And if your children grow up into adulthood and decide your theology is not as they see it in the scriptures, what then? Will you segregate yourself from them? I fear you are setting yourself up for some heartache in the future.

How many denominations have been born now from others who have convinced themselves that they have finally found the perfect truth after some 1900 years of debating?

Just some friendly advice, don't let the non-essentials of the faith cause you to isolate your brothers and sisters in Christ, and maybe one day yourself from your own children and other direct family members.

Blessings!

 

Phil Johnson (serves under John MacArthur) uses his spurgeon.org site for a lot more than Spurgeon. Confusing for sure.