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Pastor turned athiest

Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Ooooh, another let's-indict-believers-and-elevate-the-vomitus-of-the-apostate thread.

We are not commanded to live for unbelievers. We are commanded to live for the believer, specifically, the one who is weak in the faith. Willing to forgo your beer for his sake?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
Ooooh, another let's-indict-believers-and-elevate-the-vomitus-of-the-apostate thread.

We are not commanded to live for unbelievers. We are commanded to live for the believer, specifically, the one who is weak in the faith. Willing to forgo your beer for his sake?
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Why should I?
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't get it. What does the author of the blog see wrong. There is a lot of vagueness there but nothing concrete to get a picture of what he is talking about. Name some specific actions that he is talking about. I have no idea what the op wants or is talking about.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
I don't get it. What does the author of the blog see wrong. There is a lot of vagueness there but nothing concrete to get a picture of what he is talking about. Name some specific actions that he is talking about. I have no idea what the op wants or is talking about.
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Forget it....it was just an FYI.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
Because either you get it or you don't....that's why.
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That is baloney. Based on what I have seen so far there is no real complaint to be made. Just someone wanting to tear down Christians and the church. Otherwise specifics could be given.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Ok, you will hate me of course, but this guy was a Calvinist, so that might have made a difference.

In 1988, my doctrinal beliefs changed dramatically. I abandoned the doctrine I grew up with and was taught in college and embraced five-point Calvinism. As I began to read the Puritans and more modern authors like Martyn Lloyd Jones, A.W. Pink, J.C. Ryle, and Rousas Rushdoony, I came to the conclusion that God’s sovereignty over my life included how many children my wife and I were to have. As I later learned from Calvinistic writers like John MacArthur, if Jesus wasn’t Lord of all is he wasn’t Lord at all.
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolong...-is-the-man-that-has-his-quiver-full-of-them/

So, this guy not only converted over to Calvinism, but it also seem he converted to Lordship Salvation with it's extreme stress on performance. This may have had a lot to do with this fellow falling away from Christianity.

He does indicate in this particular article that he and his wife having many children, believing this was obeying the Lord might have been the first crack in his faith.

For a time, we felt guilty. We thought, we are disobeying God. Where is our faith? In the end, in spite of our theological beliefs, we put our faith and trust, not in God, but in doctors. As we look back on it now, perhaps this was the first small crack in our Evangelical Calvinistic worldview.
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Again, get mad if you want, but there is a big difference between being a Calvinist, and a non-Calvinist. If I had first heard Calvinism preached, I do not believe I would have ever become a Christian.

That said, and to be fair, this doctrine of having a "quiverfull" of children is not limited to Calvinistic Christians, and I ought to know. I have eight children myself. This seems to be what first started his discouragement with the faith.

But I could see an extreme stress on Lordship driving any person away.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
I read all four articles of how he left the faith, plus several other articles. I believe he tells us what really caused his shift in beliefs, and that was reading many, many books outside the Bible.

Probably by now, some readers are wondering, why the history lesson, Bruce? I think it is important for me to establish several things:

I am an avid reader of books
I am an avid student of whatever subject I am reading about
I am willing to go where the evidence leads me
I am willing to change my beliefs even if it costs me or makes me unpopular
Truth matters more to me than being accepted by my peers, friends or family

When I was a pastor, pastor friends and parishioners loved me for these traits. They applauded my willingness to be true to the Word of God, even if they disagreed with me. Now these same people think I read too much, study too much. I have been told that the reason I am an atheist is because of books! (and there is some truth in this statement) If I would only stop reading all these books and read THE BOOK, all would be well, one former parishioner told me.

Like the leopard who can’t change its spots, I can’t stop reading and studying. Fifty plus years ago, my mother created an intellectual monster when she taught me to read. She wanted her eldest son to be like her, a devourer or literature, a person who valued truth above the approbation of men. I owe her a great debt of gratitude.
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Interesting articles, and I do respect this fellow for his honesty.
 
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