Featured Everthing that comes to Pass is Ordained of God

Do people on your side of the debate always agree on every point?

The Archangel

 

Again, a doge. Does everyone on your side of the debate agree on everything?? I'll supply the answer here, because it's so easy: No, they don't.

In the same manner, Calvinists don't necessarily agree on every nuance. For instance, there is a debate about Supralapsarianism and Infralapsarianism.

Further, there is a debate between people of my position--who affirm the absolute necessity of the preaching of the Gospel for salvation--and those who say that a member of the elect doesn't need to believe in Christ to be saved.

So, there is a wide range on either side of the debate and to suggest that there is no debate within your camp just isn't realistic.

The Archangel

 

Supralapsarianism and Infralapsarianism does have much to do with the understanding of "TULIP."

There's a logical fallacy here. By saying "I only have the Scriptures as my final authority" begs the question that we have something other than the Scriptures as our final authority. Both sides would claim that Scripture alone is the final authority.

Also, "TULIP" is not a creed. But, along that line of reasoning, Baptists are, historically speaking, people who have had quite a number of creeds--2nd London and New Hampshire being examples of Calvinistic creeds and the Baptist Faith & Message being the official "creed" (so to speak) of the SBC.

TULIP, not being a creed, is a doctrine(s) drawn from biblical and systematic theology.

The Archangel

 

No, I absolutely do not believe that if you don't believe in TULIP you don't believe the Gospel.

Orthodoxy can and does encompass both the Arminian and Calvinist positions.

If I could figure out how to do a Venn diagram on this board I would... But, essentially, one might envision two circles side-by-side. One circle is Arminianism, the other is Calvinism. The Arminian circle includes error such as Pelagianism and the Calvinist circle includes error such as Hyper-Calvinism. In the middle, there would be an overlap of the two circles. This overlap would be "Orthodoxy."

As long as a person believes in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone--no matter whether he or she prefers the Calvinist or Arminian schema--he or she is saved.

I, for one, am not a "Calviniser." My goal is not to preach the Gospel to make Calvinists. The Gospel is preached, in both schemas, to make disciples of Christ.

I have good friends, "famous" people in the SBC--one person, specifically--who is not, by any means, a Calvinist. Yet, he is one of my favorite preachers and someone I admire greatly. Though he is not a Calvinist, I have no doubt of his love for Christ, his commitment to the Gospel, or his eternal destiny.

The Archangel

 

Decreed vs Ordained? Anyone?

 

A decree is absolute and authoritative. For instance, when God said "Let there be light" and proceeded with creation, things not yet in existence obeyed His voice.

Something that is ordained, on the other hand, takes into account the free will of sinful man. For instance, when Joseph's brothers did "evil" to him it was part of God's plan, but God did not "decree" their sinful evil. Joseph clearly says "what you [the brothers] intended for evil, God intended for good."

So, we have God fore-ordaining the free and sometimes sinful actions of man to serve His purposes and display His glory.

That's the difference.

The Archangel

 

Excellent post!! :thumbsup:

King Darius' decree is a good example of this, imo. Whenever a king made a decree, even he couldn't go back on it....see King Ahasuerus and Esther, too. King Darius, after he had been tricked into making that decree that only he could pray to his god, tried to get Daniel off of it, but to no avail. He had to toss Daniel in the den of lions.


Once God decrees something, He, being immutable, can not change it...

 

Wow, just now noticed he was banned; must have been a final straw somewhere that brought it on, oh well.....

 

AA, who says obedience to the gospel is not necessary in order to be saved?

 

Think that many here before here on the Board, and the basic problem is that you already have a misunderstanding of the fall and "free will" to start!

Does ANYTHING happen in history outside of what God eithers caused/determined, or else allowed to come to pass?

 

Lol, you think you'll the last word in Yesh?