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Who said Adam's spirit was dead ?

 

I'll rephrase the question:

who said Adam's spirit was dead, at what point ?

 

Attacking the character and behavior of an opponent is typical of the logical fallacies used continually by Calvinists.

Returning to topic, scripture says God sets before us the choice of life or death, and begs us to be reconciled with God. No verse or passage in scripture actually supports the fallacy of Total Spiritual Inability. OTOH, limited spiritual ability, able to understand the milk of the gospel but not spiritual meat is clearly taught in scripture.

 

There was no slander. I called you out for your blatant dishonesty in dealing with Calvinists. That's not slander. Someone standing up to you and daring to say "you're wrong" is not slander. Deal with it.

Sooo... God doesn't predestine people for salvation... however he did predestine Judas for betrayal and damnation?? You might want to work on your consistency Van.

And no, I did not redefine any words. To grant means to give something that someone previously did not have. When you say someone is incapable of doing something unless it has been granted to them, then they were before the granting, without the natural ability to do it. That is exactly what Jesus is talking about.

And I have no idea how you get that Judas is the only one in view in John 6:65... and you accuse us of reading into the text?!

So the idea that God will sovereignty, without the person permission, harden them so as to prevent them from ever receiving the gospel, somehow supports your view that mankind has libertarian free-will that God never interferes with? Alright then...

Sorry to hear about the chemo. Cancer is a vile thing and I am looking forward to it's annihilation in the resurrection. Praying for you brother.

I've only dealt with Van a handful of times. I'm not much of a regular here, though I am becoming one I guess, yet I have seen his defensiveness consistently spring up along with unbridled hatred at vitriol of Calvinism and Calvinists.

I suggest we pray for him, that his heart would be softened to become more gracious to his reformed brothers, and that he repent of his slander.

 

Then quit sucking the bottle and order a good steak then.....sheesh....

 

Yet another Calvinist post, devoid of on topic content, simply a bash Van post. Shuck and jive, folks, that is all they have.

 

Satan. Provocateur. Begone, evil spirit.

 

They deny their doctrines and their defense. You have got to love them.

To assert as this Calvinist just did, that if God does not predestine all things, He cannot predestine anything is simply mindless twaddle. Does God declare the end from the beginning? Yes. So every prophecy of scripture teaches God predestines events and circumstances.

You left out the part of Calvinism which says to grant means to enable by irresistible grace. That is not what give, allow, grant means. Next, to grant access to something is to not prevent access, thus to not disable, rather than enable. Calvinism simply redefines words to pour Calvinism into the text. They change from to before and grant to enable.

Just read the passage folks... And did I say Judas was the only one? Nope. More misdirection, shuck and jive nonsense.

Did I say any of that? Nope.

My view, expressed dozens of times is that we have limited spiritual ability, which can be taken away by either the practice of sin, i.e. the first soil of Matthew 13, or by God for His purpose, i.e. Romans 11.

More logical fallacy argumentation, against Van, rather than my views.

Sounds like Luke 18:11.

 

NONE can hear with understanding, nor read with insight the Bible apart from the working of the Holy Spirit!

 

Please provide scriptural references in support of your doctrinal assertions.

Question for those interested in truth:

How does one get their hands on a bible in the language they understand apart from the workings of the Holy Spirit. Think about people like John of Japan, who are literally pouring out their life under the influence of the Holy Spirit to provide a translation for the lost in Asia.

 

Please point out any "doctrine" that I denied.

Not even remotely close to what I said.

You are the one saying God doesn't predestine people! You are the one saying that God leaves it all up to our free-will. So which is? Free-will or did God predestine Judas for betrayal and condemnation?

What do you think Jesus is saying is granted? It isn't "access to something" as you seem to think. It is the ability to come to Jesus! No one is redefining any words. Your baseless accusations are getting old.

Yes, please everyone read the passage, I'll even quote it here:

John 6:60-65 HCSB
60 Therefore, when many of His disciples heard this, they said, “This teaching is hard! Who can accept it?”

61 Jesus, knowing in Himself that His disciples were complaining about this, asked them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you were to observe the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 The Spirit is the One who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some among you who don’t believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning those who would not believe and the one who would betray Him.) 65 He said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.”
​

It's blatantly obvious that Jesus is referring to all those who do not believe, not Judas's betrayal. They do not believe because the ability to to come to the Son has not been granted to them by the Father.

Actually yes you did:

You said, referring to John 6:65, that Judas is the one "not allowed to believe" - though that phrasing isn't consistent with the text either.

Fair enough. I though you were an adherent of total, libertarian free-will. Most of your posts that I've read indicated that you do believe in libertarian free-will. I must have had you confused with someone else, though.

Oddly enough that actually puts you closer to Calvinism than you probably care to admit.

I wasn't arguing against you there. I was making an observation about your behavior toward Reformed Christians. This had nothing to do with your views or the validity of your views, therefore not "logical fallacy augmentation," whatever that means exactly.

More like Luke 6:28...

Would you prefer I not pray for you? I'm genuinely concerned for you. You seem to have near uncontrollable anger towards Reformed Christians.

 

No quote will be forthcoming. I did not say nor suggest that God does not predestine people for His purposes. Several people, including Paul, were chosen from the womb, for His purpose.

Next we get the assertion that to give, grant, allow means to enable via irresistible grace. Not what the word means.

Next John 6:65 says no one can come to Jesus unless granted by the Father. Judas was not granted, permitted or allowed because Judas had been chosen to fulfill the betrayer prophecy. (See John 6:70) Does scripture include other examples of God hardening the hearts of men to preclude them from trusting in Jesus? Yes, Romans 11. Thus no one can come to Jesus unless the Father allows it is the idea, rather than enablement.

Oddly enough, it is clear you have not bothered to consider my views, only attack your preconceived notions of my views as Arminian.

And finally, your parting slander that I have anger toward Calvinists. No quote will be forthcoming. I hate Calvinism, as mistaken doctrine hindering the ministry of Christ. I view Calvinists as misled, confused, and in need of an under-shepherd, to help them address the truth of scripture.

 

Is it just me or does Van post strikingly similiar to a banned member whose last name was "Snow"?????


I just thought of their similiarities.....

 

and you intend to 'undershepherd' them by referring to them as incapable of defending doctrine without attacking you personally. IOW, you attack their doctrine by attacking their intelligence and ability.

Satan. Provocateur.
Get thee out of the board.

 

Is it just me or is Convicted1's post strikingly similar to a bevy of Calvinist posts, devoid on any on topic content, but full of complaint about the character of a non-Cal.

Scripture teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, they cannot save themselves or contribute anything of merit toward their salvation. All their works of righteousness are as filthy rags.

But scripture says God can choose to credit our worthless filthy rag faith as righteousness, or not, Romans 4:5. And so a salvation by grace through faith is not a salvation of works.
So simple a cave man could understand it.

 

This, I think is the third redundant post, which may reach the threshold of harassment. And did I say I was even able to act as an under-shepherd? Nope. So more misdirection, more shuck and more jive.

I address Calvinism, the TULIP, and the mistaken biblical views cooked up to support these man-made doctrines.

Scripture teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, they cannot save themselves or contribute anything of merit toward their salvation. All their works of righteousness are as filthy rags.

But scripture says God can choose to credit our worthless filthy rag faith as righteousness, or not, Romans 4:5. And so a salvation by grace through faith is not a salvation of works.
So simple a cave man could understand it.

 

Clarification: are you saying scripture begs us?

 

All Scripture Citations Are From The NIV

What do you do with 1 Cor. 2:14:"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

What do you do with Eph. 2:1-3 where it speaks of being dead in trasgressions and sins?

What about the fact that nobody has the will or power to come to Christ. John 5:40:"yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

What about John 6:44:"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them."

Why does the Scrpture say that before regeneration people hate God. They have real enmity and hostility toward Him. They are without Christ in the world.

No, Van. There is no "limited spiritual ability" taught in God's Holy Word.You wrest the Scripture daily saying your ungodly mantras.

There were no cave men. Document that. You are a secularist among other things.

 

You are nit picking. Are you saying you have never read 2 Corinthians 5:18-21?