Featured Defining Terms (please read the first post)

You have a good intention here, so let us define the terminology from each of the various theologies we hold with, and allow for others to not agree that is how to rightly define it...

maybe go into the specific passages we get our definitions from in the scriptures themselves?

 

Another basic problem is that we cannot seem to even agree on what happened to us as a result of the Fall, and how God operates to save us when we now have our fallen natures!

 

The problem is that based on the definitions you gave many of them both sides will agree on. They are simply not specific enough.

 

Defining words is not the problem. Interpretations and applications of said words is the issue, which will not be resolved until Jesus returns and settles it. When you have people declaring that regeneration and conversion are two separate events you will never find agreement.

 

So let us simply toss the effort aside and devote our lives to fighting one another. Cool........brother.

 

Hmmm......I believe this argument begun with Calvin, hence the name Calvinism......up til then it was pretty much agreed upon that man had a decision to make.

 

No, the debate started with Augustine (354-430) on what would later be called Calvinism. Then Gottschalk (808-867), Bradwardine (1290-1349)came along. It continued on up through Wycliffe, Luther, Whitefield, Nettleton, Spurgeon, AWP, and present day James White.

Just to name a few.

 

You can't be serious

Yes, IIRC, this was debated even in pre-reformation Catholicism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Augustinian order, Luther's order, believe in sovereign election and a limited atonement (Hence the name Augustinian), contrary to what other orders believed?

 

Then why isn't it called Augustinism?

 

It sometimes is called Augustinianism or even Pauline theology.

 

He's a confused child, on the other thread he claims he is a Monergist... :laugh:

 

you've got a list already.
should be enough to get us going.
so when's the party going to begin, and where, and who hosts it ?

 

I am puzzled at what it is you hope to accomplish here. I can tell you what will happen.

You will discover that people define those terms differently. No one will come to equal terms on them. That will be as far as it gets with the exception that some people from both sides will misrepresent the view of the other side by characterizing the opposing view based on their bias and disdain for the opposing view. Sooner or later it becomes a cat fight.


You are not the first one to try something like this. Trying to do it in the way you want will be like trying to wrangle a herd of cats.

 

Rev, you are spot on. I know that my definition of terms is not going to be decided by group consensus. Nor is yours. It is just something that needs to be worked out in a specific conversation. I doubt anyone is going to want their feet held to the fire.

 

I don't mind discussing those terms until someone characteizes my position based on thier bias and disdain. I will not tolerate some one else telling me what my postion is. Once I tell them what it is they need to respect it even though they disagree with it or I will not go further with them.

Kind of like the LS debates. Some folks do not only disagree with that position but disdain it and because of that they work to place it in the worst possible light they can. It is a dishonest form of crticism and should have no place in legitimate debate.

That was just one example. It is not the only one or the worst one.

Maybe we should not work to hold anyones feet to the fire, but instead have a conversation between brothers and sisters in Christ. Two completely different tones their.

 

I agree with you in principle. The difficulty comes when we are discussing theological positions in which we disagree. Short of not discussing theological matters at all, there will be inherent struggles in explaining ourselves if the very words we use are up for debate. And that is the position of some. They just avoid debate altogether. "You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe." I, for one, am glad that someone debated with me years ago which provoked me to study the issues for myself.