Eschatology

[OldRegular]

Quite frankly you never responded to the question. You avoided it, as you have up to and including this post.

Was there an explanation mark at the end of that statement??
It wasn't meant to be a snide remark. If you want the statement in full, it is "So what is your problem with dispensationalism as per your definition given above?" But I shortened it.

So let me break down the question for you:
Do you not agree that God dealt differently with Adam than he deals with you?
Do you believe that Adam was tested in a different way than you are?
Do you believe that the revelation Adam received was received was received in a different way than you do?
Do you have a problem in answering these questions?
They require a personal answer as I directed each one to you.

This is a debate forum. If you don't desire to debate, why are you here and why are you posting?

My questions were very specific.
I never mentioned Scofield, Darby, Ice, etc. They were specific questions directed to you. Do you think you can answer them now?

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

REBELLION

Genesis 6:5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

When God created Adam and Eve he created them upright, or righteous, fully capable of freely choosing between obedience to God or disobedience to God. Scripture tells us:

Ecclesiastes 7:29, NKJV
29 Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.

Ecclesiastes 7:29, KJV
29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Thomas Boston [a Scottish Presbyterian of the 17-18th centuries] in Human Nature in Its Fourfold States [page 37] expounds on the nature of man as created by God as follows:

“God hath made man upright. By ‘man’ here we are to understand our first parents; the archetypal pair, the root of mankind, the compendized world, and the fountain from which all generations have streamed; as may appear by comparing Genesis 5:1,2, In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him: male and female created He them; and blessed them and called their name Adam. ..... In this sense, man was made right [agreeable to the nature of God, whose work is perfect], without any imperfection, corruption, or principle of corruption, in his body or soul. He was made ‘up-right,’ that is, straight with the will and law of God, without any irregularity in his soul. By the set it got in its creation, it directly pointed towards God, as his chief end; which straight inclination was represented, as in an emblem, by the erect figure of his body, a figure that no other living creature partakes of. What David was in a gospel sense, that was he in a legal sense; one ‘according to God's own heart’, altogether righteous, pure, and holy. God made him thus: He did not first make him, and then make him righteous, but in the very making of him, He made him righteous. Original righteousness was created with him; so that in the same moment he was a man, he was a righteous man, morally good; with the same breath that God breathed into him a living soul, He breathed into him a righteous soul.”

God made a special place, a garden called Eden, in which this first man and his wife would live. There God would fellowship with this first family. When God placed Adam and Eve in Eden He gave instructions as to their responsibility.

Genesis 2:15-17, KJV
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

We do not know how long the blessed fellowship between God and the first family continued, Scripture does not indicate. It appears from the above Scripture that man, body and soul, physically and spiritually, was created to live forever. Because God created man righteous he [Adam and Eve] had the ability to keep God’s instructions perfectly, even in the face of temptation. He also had the ability to freely choose between obedience and disobedience. Sadly he chose to disobey.

Genesis 3:1-8, KJV
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Thomas Boston, page 38, comments sadly on the ruin of this first family.

“But they have sought out many inventions. They fell off from their rest in God, and fell upon seeking inventions of their own, to mend their case; and they quite marred it. Their ruin was from their own proper motion: they would not abide as God had made them; but they sought out their inventions, to deform and undo themselves.”

Man rebelled against God: Eve yielded to temptation, Adam disobeyed with deliberate intent [Genesis 3: 1-6]. The Apostle Paul many years later would describe the action of this first family as follows:

1 Timothy 2:14, KJV
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

John Gill, the preeminent Baptist theologian of the 18th century, comments on the Apostle Paul’s description of Adam’s transgression:

“There is no need to say with interpreters, that he was not deceived first; and that he was not deceived immediately by the serpent, but by Eve; and that he is never said in Scripture to be deceived, as Melchizedek is never said to have a father or mother. The apostle's positive assertion is to be taken without any such limitations or qualifications; Adam never was deceived at all; neither by the serpent, with whom he never conversed; nor by his wife, he knew what he did, when he took the fruit of her, and ate; he ate it not under any deception, or vain imagination, that they should not die, but should be as gods, knowing good and evil. He took and ate out of love to his wife, from a fond affection to her, to bear her company, and that she might not die alone; he knew what he did, and he knew what would be the consequence of it, the death of them both; and inasmuch as he sinned wilfully, and against light and knowledge, without any deception, his sin was the greater: and hereby death came in, and passed on all men, who sinned in him.” ​

 

[OldRegular]

Quite frankly you never responded to the question. You avoided it, as you have up to and including this post.

Was there an explanation mark at the end of that statement??
It wasn't meant to be a snide remark. If you want the statement in full, it is "So what is your problem with dispensationalism as per your definition given above?" But I shortened it.

So let me break down the question for you:
Do you not agree that God dealt differently with Adam than he deals with you?
Do you believe that Adam was tested in a different way than you are?
Do you believe that the revelation Adam received was received was received in a different way than you do?
Do you have a problem in answering these questions?
They require a personal answer as I directed each one to you.

This is a debate forum. If you don't desire to debate, why are you here and why are you posting?

My questions were very specific.
I never mentioned Scofield, Darby, Ice, etc. They were specific questions directed to you. Do you think you can answer them now?

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

THE FRUIT OF ADAM'S REBELLION

Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[OldRegular]

Quite frankly you never responded to the question. You avoided it, as you have up to and including this post.

Was there an explanation mark at the end of that statement??
It wasn't meant to be a snide remark. If you want the statement in full, it is "So what is your problem with dispensationalism as per your definition given above?" But I shortened it.

So let me break down the question for you:
Do you not agree that God dealt differently with Adam than he deals with you?
Do you believe that Adam was tested in a different way than you are?
Do you believe that the revelation Adam received was received was received in a different way than you do?
Do you have a problem in answering these questions?
They require a personal answer as I directed each one to you.

This is a debate forum. If you don't desire to debate, why are you here and why are you posting?

My questions were very specific.
I never mentioned Scofield, Darby, Ice, etc. They were specific questions directed to you. Do you think you can answer them now?

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam, using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

GRACE ABOUNDING

Genesis 3:9. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

John 19:28-30, After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished,
that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

We may perhaps wonder: Why, after Adam and Eve sinned, did not God immediately destroy them and begin anew? I believe that God, who created man in His own image, was not willing that the crown of His creation perish. The Holy Triune God, who embodies all righteousness, could not abandon mankind to the fate he deserved. That would have given a victory to Satan, the embodiment of all evil. Therefore, for God to destroy Adam and Eve and began anew would be contrary to His nature.

God speaking through the Apostle Paul, Romans 5:12, tells us that death entered the creation of God because of the transgression of Adam. That death was both death and spiritual. {When Adam and Eve sinned they immediately suffered spiritual death, alienation from God. At the same time those natural processes that result in physical death were set in motion; Adam and Eve began to die physically.} With spiritual death Adam and Eve also lost the unfettered ability to freely choose; that ability was now marred by the influence of their sinful nature. That nature which had been created upright was, because of willful rebellion against God, a nature that was in bondage to sin. Moreover, through the rebellion of Adam, all successive generations of mankind have been heirs to a nature in bondage to sin, alienated toward God, and subject to the wrath of God.

Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 1:21-25
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

However, where holiness demanded wrath, love provided mercy. Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound [Romans 5:20, KJV]. The Grace of God abounds but it is not without great cost.​

 

[DHK]

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

THE FRUIT OF ADAM'S REBELLION

Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I am not interested in anyone else's opinion but yours. You have no need to quote anyone, but yourself. The questions were directed at you, not your sources.
In return I have no intention of quoting Darby or Scofield. I never use those sources anyway.
Is it not possible to debate with you OR?
If not, why are you here?

 

[OldRegular]

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam, using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

THE STORY OF GRACE UNFOLDS

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

As noted above we do not know how long the blessed fellowship between God and the first family continued, Scripture does not indicate. It appears from the above Scripture that man, body and soul, physically and spiritually, was created to live forever. Because God created man righteous he [Adam and Eve] had the ability to to keep God’s instructions perfectly, even in the face of temptation. He of all men who ever lived had the ability to freely choose between good and evil. Sadly he chose evil. Man rebelled against God; Eve yielded to temptation, Adam disobeyed with deliberate intent [Genesis 3: 1-6].

God in His omniscience knew before He created that Eve would be tempted to rebellion and that Adam would, of his own free choice, join in that rebellion. We may well ask: Why? If God knew that the crown of His creation would rebel against Him why did He create or why did He give the first family freedom of choice. This is a question that exceeds our ability to answer.

Foreseeing the disobedience, the fall, of Adam and Eve. God the Father, before the foundation of the world, foreknew and chose, out of the mass of humanity, a people to be His own [Ephesians 1:4]. Where holiness demanded wrath [Romans 1:18] love provided mercy [John 3:16; Ephesians 2:4-6]. Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound [Romans 5:20, KJV] and the Triune Godhead through His Sovereign Grace has done for His elect what we could never do, He made a way for the reconciliation of His people to Himself. We see the beginning of the Grace of God in time immediately following the rebellion of the first family. In the Bible we have a record of the limitless[5] Grace of God in the Salvation of His people.


After Adam and Eve sinned they did two things:

1. They attempted to make a covering for their nakedness, aprons of fig leaves.

Genesis 3:7, KJV
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

2. They attempted to hide from God.

Genesis 3:8, KJV
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

In their state of innocence their nakedness was innocent. After they sinned their nakedness for some reason known only to God became symbolic of their guilt. Notice also that the cover they provided themselves was insufficient. Man’s effort to atone [or cover] their sin will always be insufficient.


After Adam and Eve sinned God did three things:

1. He took the initiative in restoring the relationship that Adam had broken through sin; He sought out Adam and Eve.

Genesis 3:9, KJV
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

2. He provided a cover for their nakedness, an atonement for their sin.

Genesis 3:21, KJV
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

God made them coats of skin as a covering for their sin, skin that required the shedding of innocent blood, the blood of animals. Why is the shedding of blood required for the remission of sin? The penalty for sin is death. The life is in the blood.

Leviticus 17:11, KJV
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

However, this atonement or covering, this sacrifice, was only provisional, foreshadowing the perfect sacrifice that was to come[6]. In time God the Father through His Sovereign Grace would do for His elect what they could never do for themselves, He would make us accepted in the beloved [Ephesians 1:6, KJV].

3. God made the first promise recorded in Scripture of that perfect sacrifice to come. Speaking to Satan God states:

Genesis 3:15, KJV
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Note that this promise or covenant, is unconditional. How would that redemption, that reconciliation be accomplished and at what cost? The Bible, God’s written revelation of Himself to mankind, records the story of the outworking of God’s Grace, the story of God’s purpose of redemption/reconciliation on the stage of world history.


Because of their rebellion the first family could no longer live in the Paradise called Eden. God drove them out saying to Adam and Eve:

Genesis 3:16-19, KJV
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

The Bible faithfully records the bleak history of mankind following their expulsion from Eden. Adam and Eve bear children. Among them are two sons Cain and Able. The death of animals was introduced by God as a temporary atonement for the sin of Adam and Eve. In time we see the further consequences of that sin, the death of Able at the hand of a jealous Cain. Following the death of Able Scripture tells us of a third son is born to the first family. From this man, Seth, are born those who call upon the name of the LORD [Genesis 4:25, 26]. We read of men like Enoch who walked with God [Genesis 5:24]. However, the growth of evil men seems to out pace that of godly men and we see the reality of that which is spoken of by the Apostle Paul thousands of years later:

Romans 1:21-25, 28, 32, KJV
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.​

Continued:

 

[OldRegular]

Quite frankly you never responded to the question. You avoided it, as you have up to and including this post.

Was there an explanation mark at the end of that statement??
It wasn't meant to be a snide remark. If you want the statement in full, it is "So what is your problem with dispensationalism as per your definition given above?" But I shortened it.

So let me break down the question for you:
Do you not agree that God dealt differently with Adam than he deals with you?
Do you believe that Adam was tested in a different way than you are?
Do you believe that the revelation Adam received was received was received in a different way than you do?
Do you have a problem in answering these questions?
They require a personal answer as I directed each one to you.

This is a debate forum. If you don't desire to debate, why are you here and why are you posting?

My questions were very specific.
I never mentioned Scofield, Darby, Ice, etc. They were specific questions directed to you. Do you think you can answer them now?

I have no problem DHK, I am happy with my Biblical Doctrine whether it is on Soteriology or Eschatology. But I will talk a little about Adam, using of course reputable sources, not Darby or Scofield, or Ryrie, or Walvoord, or Pentecost, or DHK:

THE STORY OF GRACE UNFOLDS Continued from post #85

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In time the wickedness of man brings the judgment of God. But there is a man, Noah, who experiences the grace of God.

Genesis 6:5-8, KJV
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Noah and his family are chosen by God out of the sinful race of mankind and spared the wrath of His judgment: a worldwide flood that destroys all mankind. Following the flood God establishes a second unconditional covenant with mankind, the promise never to destroy the earth with flood, and gives the rainbow as the sign of that covenant.

In time the earth is repopulated and that which the Apostle Paul described in the above passage from Romans is again repeated. The pride of man brings about the judgment of God, the confusion of tongues and the dispersal of mankind throughout the earth [Genesis 11:1-9].

In Genesis 3:15 God gives the initial promise in Scripture of the coming Redeemer. Since, as previously noted, God in His omniscience foreknew the rebellion of the first family we must surmise that the Triune God had already instituted His purpose in the salvation of His elect. That divine purpose instituted in eternity past is called the Covenant of Grace. This initial promise, the initial revelation of the Covenant of Grace, is veiled to say the least and could not be understood without the continuing revelation of God. But God does not leave us without hope. As the Biblical history of man unfolds so does God’s purpose in salvation.

If the Redeemer was to be born of a woman and that birth was to take place in history the way must be prepared. The Redeemer must be identified with God since He was to reconcile sinful man to God and since He was a man, the seed of a woman, He must be identified with the people of God. It was necessary, therefore, that God call out a people for His Name. Unto that people would be given the oracles of God [Romans 3:2] and through that people would come the promised Redeemer.

In due time another man finds grace in the eyes of God, a pagan man, Abram from Mesopotamia. God chooses this man, leads him and his wife - we knows not how - into a new land. In God’s promise to Abraham we clearly see further revelation of the Grace of God and expansion of that blessed promise made long ago in Eden.

Genesis 12:1-3, KJV
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

As we read the Scriptural record of Abram we see a man of great faith yet a man who, though in time will be called the Friend of God [James 2:23}, often succumbs to that which plagues all mankind: Sin! Still God, at a time of His choosing and in the twilight of Abram’s life makes His covenant with Abram, naming him Abraham.

Genesis 17:1-7, KJV
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Through Abraham God would establish a people to be a witness for His Name. From this people He would, in the fulness of time, bring the promised Redeemer into the world.

Genesis 22:18, KJV
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Subsequent Scripture and eventually the Apostle Paul identifies that seed for us.

Galatians 3:16, KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.​

 

[OldRegular]

I am not interested in anyone else's opinion but yours. You have no need to quote anyone, but yourself. The questions were directed at you, not your sources.
In return I have no intention of quoting Darby or Scofield. I never use those sources anyway.
Is it not possible to debate with you OR?
If not, why are you here?

I had come to the opinion that some dispensationalists were not interested in Scripture. Are you confirming that opinion DHK? Thankfully there are a few Dispensationalists, such as John MacArthur, who do not let their dispensational error screw up everything else in Scripture.

Incidentally I have much more where the above came from if you are interested. Note, DHK, not one dispensation yet and I have made it to Abraham!

 

[Iconoclast]

I had come to the opinion that some dispensationalists were not interested in Scripture. Are you confirming that opinion DHK? Thankfully there are a few Dispensationalists, such as John MacArthur, who do not let their dispensational error screw up everything else in Scripture.

Incidentally I have much more where the above came from if you are interested. Note, DHK, not one dispensation yet and I have made it to Abraham!

:laugh::thumbsup::wavey:

 

[DHK]

OR:
Did God speak to Adam in the same way that He speaks to you or I?

 

[OldRegular]

OR:
Did God speak to Adam in the same way that He speaks to you or I?

I have the written Word of God. Insofar as is known Adam DID NOT. BUT SCRIPTURE DOES TELL US THAT GOD SPOKE TO ADAM AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY NOTED!

 

[DHK]

I have the written Word of God. Insofar as is known Adam DID NOT. BUT SCRIPTURE DOES TELL US THAT GOD SPOKE TO ADAM AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY NOTED!

Thank you. I like to keep things simple.

The historical record of Genesis reveals that God spoke audibly with Adam and Eve.
We have his completed revelation in Scripture.
Thus it is evident we live in a different dispensation than Adam did. I think you can agree with that.

You were the one that posted:
"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God."


Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

As per the definition given, Heb.1:1 tells us that God spoke in different manners or ways and at different times unto "the fathers" by the prophets. That also speaks of dispensations.

A dispensation is simply a period of time in which God reveals himself to man in a different way that he does at other times. He always deals in grace. Man always must respond in faith, no matter what test God may give him or how God chooses to deal with him.
Salvation is always by grace through faith. When has it been any different?

 

[OldRegular]

Thank you. I like to keep things simple.

There is nothing simple about dispensational doctrine. It twists and turns the Revelation of God in all directions.

The Bible, the Revelation of God to mankind, is the story of the outworking of God's promise of redemption/reconciliation first made in Genesis 3:15. The calling out of Abraham and the setting apart of Israel then Judah were simply the means by which God worked in time and history to accomplish His promise.

The historical record of Genesis reveals that God spoke audibly with Adam and Eve.
We have his completed revelation in Scripture.
Thus it is evident we live in a different dispensation than Adam did. I think you can agree with that.

Not at all. Adam and Eve were created upright and rebelled against God: Eve because she was tempted, Adam deliberately!

You were the one that posted:
"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God."

You are leaving a false impression with the above statement. I was quoting the definition which Ryrie attributed to Cyrus V. Scofield and the Original Scofield RB

God spoke to Adam directly but God also spoke to Abraham and Moses directly. Adam was tested the same way all mankind is tested; Obedience to God. Adam was created righteous and failed. Since Adam the elect of God have been regenerated or born again, and then tested relative to obedience to God, a test he frequently fails.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

As per the definition given, Heb.1:1 tells us that God spoke in different manners or ways and at different times unto "the fathers" by the prophets. That also speaks of dispensations.

A dispensation is simply a period of time in which God reveals himself to man in a different way that he does at other times. He always deals in grace. Man always must respond in faith, no matter what test God may give him or how God chooses to deal with him.
Salvation is always by grace through faith. When has it been any different?

Classic Dispensationalism is a hole which Darby started digging about 1830. Scofield popularized that hole with the SRB and Classic dispensationalists have been digging toward China ever since then. Fortunately, by the Grace of God, some dispensationalists are struggling to climb out of that hole.

{ Sadly the hyper dispensationalists, digging harder and faster, converted the one true Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, into the Gospel of Paul, and fell out the other side.}

Ryrie [Dispensationalism] notes, page 134:

1. Classic Dispensationalism used the words parenthesis and intercalation to describe the distinctiveness of the Church in relation to God's program for Israel.

2. Progressive/modified/revisionist dispensationalism wishes to discard the word parenthesis, implying it means that the church is something lesser in God's plan, an afterthought!

Thank God for those dispensationalists who are willing to turn away from at least part of the Darby/Scofield twisting of Scripture. They have taken a major step in rejecting the Classic Dispensational error that the Church, for which Jesus Christ died, is an afterthought. If they turn far enough they may reject all of the Darby/Scofield error, get out of that hole into the glorious light of God's Revelation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:laugh::thumbsup::wavey:

See...this is Old School. I'm happy Tony to see that you applaud it....very happy.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I wish to GOD my friend "OR " that I had a man of your understanding here in NJ verses the dross that operates out here in the area. God needs to send us (meaning the New York and New Jersey metro area) men who take the Word seriously.....I mean it! This area is void of the word, void of the grace and blessings and it shows....PATHETIC!!!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I wish to GOD my friend "OR " that I had a man of your understanding here in NJ verses the dross that operates out here in the area. God needs to send us (meaning the New York and New Jersey metro area) men who take the Word seriously.....I mean it! This area is void of the word, void of the grace and blessings and it shows....PATHETIC!!!

First Baptist Church in the City of New York pastored by Matthew Hoskinson. He spoke at our church last year. Dynamic, powerful, biblically sound.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

First Baptist Church in the City of New York pastored by Matthew Hoskinson. He spoke at our church last year. Dynamic, powerful, biblically sound.

One....one?.... how many do you have in your 75 mile radius???

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

One....one?.... how many do you have in your 75 mile radius???

Literally dozens, I admit. But at least there's one in NYC. That's better than none. And as you have voiced by your cry for "men who take the Word seriously," Hoskinson and the SBC agrees. He is one of the most outspoken pastors in the Northeast of the need to evangelize the mega-metros along the Mid-Atlantic seaboard. He seeks men like you who see the need as well.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Literally dozens, I admit. But at least there's one in NYC. That's better than none. And as you have voiced by your cry for "men who take the Word seriously," Hoskinson and the SBC agrees. He is one of the most outspoken pastors in the Northeast of the need to evangelize the mega-metros along the Mid-Atlantic seaboard. He seeks men like you who see the need as well.

I will reach out to him....but time will tell. NYC is a world away. And expensive....16 dollars for the GWB, 35 dollars plus tip for parking plus a tank of gas and Ny traffic and commute. Nobody in Northern NJ will do that.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I will reach out to him....but time will tell. NYC is a world away. And expensive....16 dollars for the GWB, 35 dollars plus tip for parking plus a tank of gas and Ny traffic and commute. Nobody in Northern NJ will do that.

Not even ol' Chris after he shuts down a bridge or two? :laugh:

 

[DHK]

There is nothing simple about dispensational doctrine. It twists and turns the Revelation of God in all directions.

Many people disagree on the book of Revelation but perhaps you don't mean.
Many people disagree on how the Bible is to be interpreted, which is part of this discussion. I agree with that. That will always be true. That doesn't make either one heresy. Neither should there be a pent-up hatred for the other.

The Bible, the Revelation of God to mankind, is the story of the outworking of God's promise of redemption/reconciliation first made in Genesis 3:15. The calling out of Abraham and the setting apart of Israel then Judah were simply the means by which God worked in time and history to accomplish His promise.

I don't disagree with that, and neither does my way of looking at the Bible disagree with that.
But that wasn't the observation I was making. I was simply pointing out that God spoke to Adam differently than he speaks to you, which is true. I never mentioned anything about others. I was speaking about Adam and you.

Not at all. Adam and Eve were created upright and rebelled against God: Eve because she was tempted, Adam deliberately!

I don't disagree with that.

You are leaving a false impression with the above statement. I was quoting the definition which Ryrie attributed to Cyrus V. Scofield and the Original Scofield RB

So where's the false impression. It is the definition you used. In fact you used this definition in correcting RM with his.

God spoke to Adam directly but God also spoke to Abraham and Moses directly. Adam was tested the same way all mankind is tested; Obedience to God. Adam was created righteous and failed. Since Adam the elect of God have been regenerated or born again, and then tested relative to obedience to God, a test he frequently fails.

Again I never mentioned anyone by Adam and you, except when I quoted Heb.1:1. God spoke directly to Adam. He speaks through his written to you. They are different. You must agree.
He tested Adam in a different way than he tested you.
Does he ask you to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? No.
However, you are very wrong about the statement of obedience. If you are saying that obedience is required for salvation you are wrong.
It wasn't the obedience of Abraham that made him righteous, it was faith.
So it is today. "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God." (no works involved).

Classic Dispensationalism is a hole which Darby started digging about 1830. Scofield popularized that hole with the SRB and Classic dispensationalists have been digging toward China ever since then. Fortunately, by the Grace of God, some dispensationalists are struggling to climb out of that hole.

You guys are entitled to your opinions. You throw around these names, but in reality millenialism has been around far longer than that. The ECF called it Chiliasm.

{ Sadly the hyper dispensationalists, digging harder and faster, converted the one true Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, into the Gospel of Paul, and fell out the other side.}

That has nothing to do with me.

Thank God for those dispensationalists who are willing to turn away from at least part of the Darby/Scofield twisting of Scripture. They have taken a major step in rejecting the Classic Dispensational error that the Church, for which Jesus Christ died, is an afterthought. If they turn far enough they may reject all of the Darby/Scofield error, get out of that hole into the glorious light of God's Revelation.

I haven't read Darby. I have little to do with Scofield. I don't know why you harp on these guys all the time. That is not where I learned dispensationalism from. There are certain eras in the Bible in which it is naturally divided. That is obvious to most people who don't even believe in dispensationalism.
Look in the table of contents of your Bible.
Often it will be divided for you:
The Torah. The historical books. The poetical books. The prophetic books. etc. There are some natural divisions in the Bible.