Are Catholics Saved?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Gospelly ? Not one of them. Saved,as in, by Christ's finished work ? Some, yes, especially those of the "laity".

yea....what would you call them Lemmings, sheep I don't know....so much history involved in it. Up here in Catholic Land, the Catholics are the 1st ones to make fun of & critique their Church & how bad they are but they send their kids through the school system, support the parish etc & would never dream of leaving the mess. why is that?

 

[DHK]

yea....what would you call them Lemmings, sheep I don't know....so much history involved in it. Up here in Catholic Land, the Catholics are the 1st ones to make fun of & critique their Church & how bad they are but they send their kids through the school system, support the parish etc & would never dream of leaving the mess. why is that?

Tradition, family ties, social club, bingo afterwards, etc.
Bit if a person truly gets saved there will be a change in their lives. That change will come with leaving the Catholic church, with a realization that the doctrine that is taught is wrong. One cannot believe in the doctrines of the RCC and in salvation by grace through faith at the same time.

One cannot be a Muslim and a Christian at the same time.
You are one or the other.
The "gospel" of the RCC is not the gospel of the Bible.

 

[pinoybaptist]

yea....what would you call them Lemmings, sheep I don't know....so much history involved in it. Up here in Catholic Land, the Catholics are the 1st ones to make fun of & critique their Church & how bad they are but they send their kids through the school system, support the parish etc & would never dream of leaving the mess. why is that?

Well, my late uncle Tony, he was as devout and devoted as they can get yet one day my cuz (not his son) chanced on him smashing one of his "devotional" altars. Yeah, there's an "s" right there. That's when I started to drift towards Karl Marx and Bertrand Russell.
Then, in junior varsity where players are required to sleep on campus in summer, I caught one Dom, as Benedictine seminarians are addressed, creeping into the bed of one of the players (if the Admins censor that, I would expect the crowd of "constitution trumps rules of order and decency crowd" here to put their money where their mouths are to come to my aid).
Now, being once a Catholic myself, as you are, I guess I agree with the gist of most of what DHK said. Until and unless the Spirit Himself intervenes in this time world, then family traditions, cultural traditions, etc., will prove a barrier even to the regenerate CatholicsCatholics among the RCC.

 

[pinoybaptist]

"Catholics Catholic"...... lol. dontcha just love auto- correct....:tongue3:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, my late uncle Tony, he was as devout and devoted as they can get yet one day my cuz (not his son) chanced on him smashing one of his "devotional" altars. Yeah, there's an "s" right there. That's when I started to drift towards Karl Marx and Bertrand Russell.
Then, in junior varsity where players are required to sleep on campus in summer, I caught one Dom, as Benedictine seminarians are addressed, creeping into the bed of one of the players (if the Admins censor that, I would expect the crowd of "constitution trumps rules of order and decency crowd" here to put their money where their mouths are to come to my aid).
Now, being once a Catholic myself, as you are, I guess I agree with the gist of most of what DHK said. Until and unless the Spirit Himself intervenes in this time world, then family traditions, cultural traditions, etc., will prove a barrier even to the regenerate CatholicsCatholics among the RCC.

Pinoy, my mom's family Roman Catholicism goes back to the Roman empire....but today most of them have moved away from it. Unfortunately they are still as pious & fanatical as ever, just not for the RCC.... now its mostly Arminian Fundamentalism (with its own set of peculiarities & legalisms). Somehow they seem to like being slaves to bad religion. :BangHead:

 

[pinoybaptist]

As are most of God's people everywhere else. That's why doctrine and theology is not the yardstick as to who is eternally saved. Only the blood of Christ speaks to that.

 

[The Biblicist]

My point is validated then.....its doctrine that is wrong....not Gospel. [/I]

The gospel IS doctrine and the wrong gospel is wrong doctrine! The true gospel must have the right doctrinal content. Don't you understand that "doctrine" simply means teaching?

 

[DHK]

Pinoy, my mom's family Roman Catholicism goes back to the Roman empire....but today most of them have moved away from it. Unfortunately they are still as pious & fanatical as ever, just not for the RCC.... now its mostly Arminian Fundamentalism (with its own set of peculiarities & legalisms). Somehow they seem to like being slaves to bad religion. :BangHead:

The Catholic Church is very accommodating. I have a sister who claims to be a strong adherent to the Catholic religion, but despite her Catholic upbringing she really knows little of actual Catholic doctrine as the Catechism teaches it. She is more into the New Age movement. Everything in her house must be "balanced." If there is a plant in one corner there must be one in the diagonal opposite corner--balance. She even changed the spelling of her first name to fit a proper numerical value for good luck.
However she is a "good Catholic."

 

[Rippon]

Take a hike

I thought you have said that you appreciate direct language? The truth hurts your feelings.You can sure dish it out,b ut you do not recognize your inconsistency in post after post when things apply to you.

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

Yes Catholics are saved. They are in the Body of Christ.

So those who worship Mary and the Saints, and believe that faith alone cannot save, ARE SAVED? Did not the early reformers state that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist? What is the Christian world coming to?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So those who worship Mary and the Saints, and believe that faith alone cannot save, ARE SAVED? Did not the early reformers state that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist? What is the Christian world coming to?

What reformers.....show references with commentary please.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I thought you have said that you appreciate direct language? The truth hurts your feelings.You can sure dish it out,b ut you do not recognize your inconsistency in post after post when things apply to you.

Just what are you babbling on about? Do you even know?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The gospel IS doctrine and the wrong gospel is wrong doctrine! The true gospel must have the right doctrinal content. Don't you understand that "doctrine" simply means teaching?

a little more than that:

doc·trine
ˈdäktrən/
noun
noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.
"the doctrine of predestination"
synonyms: creed, credo, dogma, belief, teaching, ideology; More
tenet, maxim, canon, principle, precept
"the doctrine of the Trinity"
US
a stated principle of government policy, mainly in foreign or military affairs.
"the Monroe Doctrine"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Catholic Church is very accommodating. I have a sister who claims to be a strong adherent to the Catholic religion, but despite her Catholic upbringing she really knows little of actual Catholic doctrine as the Catechism teaches it. She is more into the New Age movement. Everything in her house must be "balanced." If there is a plant in one corner there must be one in the diagonal opposite corner--balance. She even changed the spelling of her first name to fit a proper numerical value for good luck.
However she is a "good Catholic."

This just proves to me that you have lived through the nonsense. Regarding your sister, ahhhh well that is another story altogether.

so its your position that all your RC relatives & ancestors are in hell....am I clear on that?

 

[The Biblicist]

[/B]

a little more than that:

doc·trine
ˈdäktrən/
noun
noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.
"the doctrine of predestination"
synonyms: creed, credo, dogma, belief, teaching, ideology; More
tenet, maxim, canon, principle, precept
"the doctrine of the Trinity"
US
a stated principle of government policy, mainly in foreign or military affairs.
"the Monroe Doctrine"

That is not the Biblical meaning or definition of "doctrine"!

1. Hebrew "leqach" - teaching, learning, instruction
2. Greek "didaskalia" - teaching, learning, instruction


Where are you going next to define it - Plato?

 

[pinoybaptist]

So those who worship Mary and the Saints, and believe that faith alone cannot save, ARE SAVED?

Anyone who are saved, at all, are saved by the BLOOD OF CHRIST.
Like the song says:

The blood that Jesus shed for me,
way back on Calvary,
the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.

It reaches to the highest mountain.
It flows to the lowest valley.
Oh, the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.

It soothes my doubts and calms my fears,
and it dries all my tears,
the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.

Did not the early reformers state that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist?

Didn't the Bible say that Satan is the prince of this world ?

What is the Christian world coming to?

Good question. I'll venture an answer, if you'll have it.
The "Christian World", as you call it, has been deflected by Satan, in the guise of eloquent, masterful, and "respected" Bible scholars, from looking at Christ, the author, and only author of eternal salvation, to looking at their own works and giving their Savior and the blood He shed lip service, like, "yes, he is Savior and all that, BUT.....

By works, I mean, not just the walking from the door of the church to the altar, kissing the "saint's" feet, becoming members of this or that devotional group, confessing his/her sins and receiving holy communion, and all that.
By works I mean, especially among the so-called Baptist and Fundamental and evangelical and free gospel, etc., their repentance, their faith, their denomination, their doctrine, their pastors, their missionary works.

What's happening to the "Christian world" is that it has replaced Christ with the gospel as the ONLYmeans and source of redemption. Hearing and obeying the gospel as the mark of a true Christian, instead of listening to the Bible's words that they who are Christ's (the Christians) were sealed by the Holy Spirit who alone knows them that are His.

What's happening to the "Christian" world is that it has forgotten that God is a merciful God and a Sovereign God and that He has stated that the choice of mercy and compassion is His, even to those who have blatantly sinned against His holiness, like the examples He gave to us of this age of how He dealt with Israel (check out Romans 15:4, and 1 Corinthians 10:10-12), and so, to magnify and focus on themselves (their repentance, their 'faith', etc) they not God, mind you required that in order for the blood of Christ to be truly effective for those for whom it is intended, only those who hear and obey the gospel are saved and all others before the gospel was preached, are damned.

That is mostly what is happening to the Christian world. Check out this board.
This board is representative.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is not the Biblical meaning or definition of "doctrine"!

1. Hebrew "leqach" - teaching, learning, instruction
2. Greek "didaskalia" - teaching, learning, instruction


Where are you going next to define it - Plato?

Why, wasn't Webster good enough for you?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anyone who are saved, at all, are saved by the BLOOD OF CHRIST.
Like the song says:

The blood that Jesus shed for me,
way back on Calvary,
the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.

It reaches to the highest mountain.
It flows to the lowest valley.
Oh, the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.

It soothes my doubts and calms my fears,
and it dries all my tears,
the blood that gives me strength from day to day,
it will never lose its power.




Didn't the Bible say that Satan is the prince of this world ?



Good question. I'll venture an answer, if you'll have it.
The "Christian World", as you call it, has been deflected by Satan, in the guise of eloquent, masterful, and "respected" Bible scholars, from looking at Christ, the author, and only author of eternal salvation, to looking at their own works and giving their Savior and the blood He shed lip service, like, "yes, he is Savior and all that, BUT.....

By works, I mean, not just the walking from the door of the church to the altar, kissing the "saint's" feet, becoming members of this or that devotional group, confessing his/her sins and receiving holy communion, and all that.
By works I mean, especially among the so-called Baptist and Fundamental and evangelical and free gospel, etc., their repentance, their faith, their denomination, their doctrine, their pastors, their missionary works.

What's happening to the "Christian world" is that it has replaced Christ with the gospel as the ONLYmeans and source of redemption. Hearing and obeying the gospel as the mark of a true Christian, instead of listening to the Bible's words that they who are Christ's (the Christians) were sealed by the Holy Spirit who alone knows them that are His.

What's happening to the "Christian" world is that it has forgotten that God is a merciful God and a Sovereign God and that He has stated that the choice of mercy and compassion is His, even to those who have blatantly sinned against His holiness, like the examples He gave to us of this age of how He dealt with Israel (check out Romans 15:4, and 1 Corinthians 10:10-12), and so, to magnify and focus on themselves (their repentance, their 'faith', etc) they not God, mind you required that in order for the blood of Christ to be truly effective for those for whom it is intended, only those who hear and obey the gospel are saved and all others before the gospel was preached, are damned.

That is mostly what is happening to the Christian world. Check out this board.
This board is representative.

Well since I am only your unchurched (unclean) sidekick.....oh hoho ahhhh haaaaaaaaa, ah cough he he he he....Oh Gad, cant stop laughin.......ah, just call me Tonto...."hum, heap big words Kimosabe" I Likem It :laugh::thumbsup:

 

[PreachTony]

Anyone who are saved, at all, are saved by the BLOOD OF CHRIST.

I like that we agree on this, pinoy, even though I think we are coming at it from vastly different angles.

Good question. I'll venture an answer, if you'll have it.
The "Christian World", as you call it, has been deflected by Satan, in the guise of eloquent, masterful, and "respected" Bible scholars, from looking at Christ, the author, and only author of eternal salvation, to looking at their own works and giving their Savior and the blood He shed lip service, like, "yes, he is Savior and all that, BUT.....

By works, I mean, not just the walking from the door of the church to the altar, kissing the "saint's" feet, becoming members of this or that devotional group, confessing his/her sins and receiving holy communion, and all that.
By works I mean, especially among the so-called Baptist and Fundamental and evangelical and free gospel, etc., their repentance, their faith, their denomination, their doctrine, their pastors, their missionary works.

Find a church that doesn't, in some way, do these things. It's difficult, as churches are comprised of human beings, and human beings are sinful.

What's happening to the "Christian world" is that it has replaced Christ with the gospel as the ONLYmeans and source of redemption. Hearing and obeying the gospel as the mark of a true Christian, instead of listening to the Bible's words that they who are Christ's (the Christians) were sealed by the Holy Spirit who alone knows them that are His.

I know we've been over this before, but I stand by it...(bolded for emphasis)

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Paul says that whoever calls on God will be saved (I had an interesting discussion with James L about this in another thread), and he goes on to say that they can't call on him unless they believe, and they cannot believe without hearing the Word.

The Gospel, that you seem to place in a lower status within our doctrine, is, as Paul also wrote to the Romans, the "power of God unto salvation" to all peoples.

What's happening to the "Christian" world is that it has forgotten that God is a merciful God and a Sovereign God and that He has stated that the choice of mercy and compassion is His, even to those who have blatantly sinned against His holiness...

I would argue that many modern churches have actually bought so wholeheartedly into the "God is Love" philosophy of the Joel Osteens of the world that they've forgotten that God is also the one who takes vengeance, and the God is a jealous God.

... like the examples He gave to us of this age of how He dealt with Israel (check out Romans 15:4, and 1 Corinthians 10:10-12), and so, to magnify and focus on themselves (their repentance, their 'faith', etc) they not God, mind you required that in order for the blood of Christ to be truly effective for those for whom it is intended, only those who hear and obey the gospel are saved and all others before the gospel was preached, are damned.

I wouldn't go that far, but you can run into some sticky situations debating the eternal fate of those who never heard the gospel on this earth. I've heard several explanations, though I won't endorse or condemn any of them. I know that Christ read, in a prophecy concerning himself, that he would "preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound."

That is mostly what is happening to the Christian world. Check out this board.
This board is representative.

Any internet forum is going to have its trolls and tricksters. Some people live just to see others riled up.

 

[The Biblicist]

Why, wasn't Webster good enough for you?

Webster's 1833 edition of the Bible is good enough for me!:thumbs: