Works based Salvation??

[evangelist6589]

Turn to page 110 of the book Heaven and Hell by Edward Donnelly. The first paragraph sounds allot like he is teaching works based salvation by saying that living a good life is required to enter heaven.

"The Puritan Pastor (John Bunyan) eventually transmuted his irritation into good advice by telling his questioner to trust Christ and live a holy life so that he could go to heaven and find out the answers for himself."

No living a good life is required to gain rewards in Heaven, but salvation is by faith alone (Eph 2:8-9). Do you know why he wrote this? If I were him I’d edit the book and republish it for such a comment is heretical.

The book was excellent other than this one sentence bye the way. His Amill and covenant theology comments I disagree with, but they are not heretical. Perhaps there is an explanation for the comments.


John

PS- Finished this book John C so know lets focus entirely on Tell the Truth.

 

[InTheLight]

Turn to page 110 of the book Heaven and Hell by Edward Donnelly. The first paragraph sounds allot like he is teaching works based salvation by saying that living a good life is required to enter heaven.

"The Puritan Pastor (John Bunyan) eventually transmuted his irritation into good advice by telling his questioner to trust Christ and live a holy life so that he could go to heaven and find out the answers for himself."

No living a good life is required to gain rewards in Heaven, but salvation is by faith alone (Eph 2:8-9). Do you know why he wrote this? If I were him I’d edit the book and republish it for such a comment is heretical.

He wrote that line because that is the definition of Lordship Salvation. Be regenerated and do good works and when you die you will find out if you persevered to the end and were truly one of the elect.

 

[evangelist6589]

He wrote that line because that is the definition of Lordship Salvation. Be regenerated and do good works and when you die you will find out if you persevered to the end and were truly one of the elect.

LS does not teach works based salvation.

 

[InTheLight]

LS does not teach works based salvation.

It teaches what I described. If you don't think that is works based salvation that's your prerogative, but it sure sounds like it to me.

 

[annsni]

I wonder if he's going by the 1 John/James route where the actions are backing up the faith. It's not the works that save but the proof of salvation?

 

[Revmitchell]

It teaches what I described. If you don't think that is works based salvation that's your prerogative, but it sure sounds like it to me.

No that is your characterization of what he wrote.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Works may not save, but works show your faith.

” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. James 2:18b

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24

 

[Revmitchell]

Works may not save, but works show your faith.

” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 1st Tim. 2:18b

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 1st Tim. 2:24

Those are both in James not 1 Timothy but you got the chapter and verse right.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Those are both in James not 1 Timothy but you got the chapter and verse right.

Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. I have corrected the mistake.

We cannot simply dismiss works as unnecessary. Saying I believe and have faith and doing nothing just won't make it with God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. I have corrected the mistake.

We cannot simply dismiss works as unnecessary. Saying I believe and have faith and doing nothing just won't make it with God.

On this you and I agree. I would add that our works need to be personally done. Not via the government. Supporting government wealth redistribution is not good works.

 

[evangelist6589]

Works do show evidence of a true conversion but they by no means save anyone. I read the entire book so I know what the author meant, however such a statement taken out of context of the entire book could lead to heresy for the author.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Works do show evidence of a true conversion but they by no means save anyone. I read the entire book so I know what the author meant, however such a statement taken out of context of the entire book could lead to heresy for the author.

I agree, taken out of context it could lead to heresy. But taking verses about salvation and faith out of context could also lead to heresy.

 

[JonC]

I agree, taken out of context it could lead to heresy. But taking verses about salvation and faith out of context could also lead to heresy.

:thumbsup: Rarely, if ever, is heresy deliberate. Some times I believe heresy to be born out of a focused zeal on a legitimate biblical truth...removed from proper context and magnified out of proportion.

 

[Crabtownboy]

:thumbsup: Rarely, if ever, is heresy deliberate. Some times I believe heresy to be born out of a focused zeal on a legitimate biblical truth...removed from proper context and magnified out of proportion.

I agree. I believe it would be a very rare instance where someone would deliberately preach or teach a heresy.

Years ago I heard a preacher say in a sermon, "A heresy is a wrong answer to a right question."

 

[JamesL]

:thumbsup: Rarely, if ever, is heresy deliberate. Some times I believe heresy to be born out of a focused zeal on a legitimate biblical truth...removed from proper context and magnified out of proportion.

I agree.

Just like the mistaken, erroneous, near-heretical view that saving faith inevitably produces good works.

It comes from an out-of-context reading of James 2:14-26, which ignores the reminders of a believer's coming judgment (found in 2:12-13 & 3:1)

Such a tragedy

 

[Yeshua1]

Works do show evidence of a true conversion but they by no means save anyone. I read the entire book so I know what the author meant, however such a statement taken out of context of the entire book could lead to heresy for the author.

IF he was trying to support the LS position though, an extreme view of that would seem to indicate that we must have sufficient good works to support a real salvation!

 

[JamesL]

IF he was trying to support the LS position though, an extreme view of that would seem to indicate that we must have sufficient good works to support a real salvation!

????

If someone misunderstands James 2:14-26 as relating to "saved" from hell, how can there HONESTLY be anything other than an extreme view? All other views would take a half-hearted approach.

 

[JamesL]

Works do show evidence of a true conversion but they by no means save anyone......

How can you come to that conclusion from James 2?

v 14 - What if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can that faith save him?
v 24 - You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

There's no hint of any "fruit" teaching here. Misunderstanding "saved" and "justified" in this chapter has led to almost every manner of dancing around, trying to squeeze this into Paul's teaching that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT works.


Understanding the context clears up all the conflict

Otherwise, we can believe those who make up doctrine to relieve tension. Protestants are good at that

 

[Rippon]

Rarely, if ever, is heresy deliberate. Some times I believe heresy to be born out of a focused zeal on a legitimate biblical truth...removed from proper context and magnified out of proportion.

Really? In the last 2,000 years, can you point to heresies that were borne of merely being zealous yet misguided? On the contrary, the history of the Church proves just the opposite. Heresy is intentional.

 

[JonC]

Really? In the last 2,000 years, can you point to heresies that were borne of merely being zealous yet misguided? On the contrary, the history of the Church proves just the opposite. Heresy is intentional.

The Circumcellions and Donatists come to mind quickly. There is also Antinomianism, Marcionism, Adoptionism, and Appollinarism. But insofar as early heresies I was thinking more of Pelagianism (although Monarchianism is another excellent example). It would be foolish to say that Pelagianism was an intentional heresy (in terms of heresy to Christianity….not necessarily the prevailing position).

In another post you mentioned R.B.C. Howell. When he took the position in Nashville he faced heretics that were not intentionally departing from biblical doctrine. The Campbellites were one of these groups. Another was the hyper-Calvinists whose (in reaction to the growing Methodist doctrine) magnification of divine sovereignty ultimately led them into disobedience.