1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Calvinism and the Rapture

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Sapper Woody, Jan 16, 2015.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    175
    I know this is a debate forum, but I am not trying to start a debate. I personally am nonCal and a pre-tribber. But I was wondering if all Cals hold a position other than preTrib, because of the verse that talks about "if possible would receive the elect" (paraphrase from memory). This is talking about a time after the rapture according to preTrib.



    So, out of curiosity, can you be a Cal and a preTribber?
     
    #1 Sapper Woody, Jan 16, 2015
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    John MacArthur is a Calvinist who is a pre-trib, dispensationalist.
     
    #2 DHK, Jan 16, 2015
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    Arminian. Post trib. PreMill.

    So that text fits perfectly.
     
    #3 BobRyan, Jan 16, 2015
  4. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    175
    Just saw I put "received" instead of "deceived" in my OP. But I think you guys knew what I meant.
     
    #4 Sapper Woody, Jan 16, 2015
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Dr. Bob I believe!
     
    #5 OldRegular, Jan 17, 2015
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,527
    Likes Received:
    3,048
    Faith:
    Baptist
    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
     
    #6 kyredneck, Jan 17, 2015
  7. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In my opinion, a phrase like PreTrib Calvinist would be an oxymoron. Here's why:

    Calvinism stems from Covenant Theology, which is starkly opposed to the Dispensational view of a PreTrib rapture.

    The idea in Dispensationalism is that of God will remove the Church, so that He can reinstate His "program" with the nation of Israel (I don't like the word "program" btw)

    But in Covenant Theology, the church is a continuation of God's covenants of times past, including those with Israel. That's one reason a Calvinist believes OT saints were regenerated.

    The church is either distinct or it's not. Pretty black and white.

    Those like MacArthur are holding two conflicted ideas simultaneously by trying to categorize one as Soteriology and the other as Eschatology.

    But Eschatology is one aspect of Soteriology. Old Testament "salvation" looked to a finality when God would establish a forever kingdom of righteousness. And that's what New Testament "salvation" looks to as a finality also.

    This Eschatological salvation is what saints of all times have hoped for.

    The Calvinist and Dispensationalist are at odds Eschatologically speaking, because the entirety of their Soteriologies are at odds. It's logically impossible to have one view of the covenants, yet embrace the opposing view as it relates to the finality of the covenants
     
    #7 JamesL, Jan 17, 2015
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    You do realize, don't you, that the first inroads of pre-trib-dispensationalism in this country were made in the Presbyterian Churches.

     
    #8 OldRegular, Jan 17, 2015
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    By that definition I am a Calvinist.
     
    #9 BobRyan, Jan 17, 2015
  10. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've said a hundred times that Calvinists are nothing but Arminians in disguise
     
    #10 JamesL, Jan 18, 2015
  11. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Doesn't really matter. Protestantism started to get really muddled back in the mid-1800s, and everybody was trying to "restore" the first century church. Millerites, Mormons, Adventists, Russellites, you name it.
     
    #11 JamesL, Jan 18, 2015
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,924
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Faith:
    Baptist
    End result....."freak churches "
     
    #12 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 18, 2015
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,924
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well which came first?
     
    #13 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 18, 2015
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,924
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Amen:applause:
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 18, 2015
  15. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They came out of Rome together
     
    #15 JamesL, Jan 18, 2015
  16. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, but they all had their roots in mainstream Protestantism. My only point there was that not everything which cropped up within Protestantism was in keeping with Protestant doctrine
     
    #16 JamesL, Jan 18, 2015
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    Your URL leads to a site by Earnest Reisinger. No wonder you are confused and have such a hatred for dispenationalists and others with like views! Do you know anything about this man? You should read up on him.
    From:
    http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.ca/2008/02/reisinger-biography-reviewed.html

    Note how early on how this man was zealous for the Lord; how evangelistic he was.
    He lost his zeal for the Lord. But how? The article continues:
    What a sad turn of events in this man's life who used to be zealous for the Lord, and now was zealous toward infant baptism and other like doctrines.
     
    #17 DHK, Jan 18, 2015
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Childish nonsense. You brans anyone who disagrees with Darby's pre-trib-dispensationalism as confused and full of hate! Childish nonsense. I realize you would love to deny I am saved by the Grace of God but you fear getting banned. You come as close as you can anyhow. Frankly DHK I could care less what you think about me or my Faith.
     
    #18 OldRegular, Jan 18, 2015
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    I think the chicken came first!
     
    #19 OldRegular, Jan 30, 2015
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    I was pointing out your source OR, and said nothing about you.
    Look at the difference in Reisinger's life:
    He was saved by reading a tract--was labeled as an Arminian believer, and was a zealous soul-winner reaching others for Christ with a heart for the Lord.

    Then he was introduced to Presbyterian Calvinism.
    He became an ardent defender of pedobaptism or infant baptism, a doctrine that Baptists fight against.

    This is one of the authorities that you often quote if I remember correctly.
    It is sad to see a life so mixed up and confused, one who was once zealous for the Lord and then a defender of Presbyterian infant baptism.
    I trust you would have agreed with that much and not have defended the Presbyterian infant baptism.
     
    #20 DHK, Jan 30, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...