Featured A Skopos Version of John 17

John 17:10 Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.

Jesus chose them and the Father chose them. And they have brought glory to Jesus.

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His vision into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Even as you gave Him authority over all flesh that He will give eternal life to them you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me along side you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them. ​

 

John 17:11

11. And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I Myself am going to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name who You have given to Me, that they might be one just as We are. (JOJ)

11. I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are. (WEB) ​

First, I would rearrange the phrases, with These are in the world but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Thus the conjunctions set off the contrasting and complimentary phrases.

Second, does Jesus want the Father to keep them in His name, i.e. help them be obedient to God's will, or does Jesus want the Father to protect them by His divine agency (influence, power and control)? I think it is an appeal to God's influence, power and control as God Almighty, thus protect them by your name. Just as Jesus was "anointed with the Holy Spirit and power" here is an appeal for the Apostles to be anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.

When do fallen people become "one" with the Father and the Son? When we are born anew, with our sin burden removed, and indwelt with the Holy Spirit. And for the disciples chosen by the Father and the Son, this happened at Pentecost.

Putting it all together: These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.

 

John 17:12

12. When I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in Your name, and I have protected those who You had given Me, and none of them perished except for the son of destruction, so that the Scripture might be fulfilled. (JOJ)
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name. Those whom you have given me I have kept. None of them is lost, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. (WEB) ​

First, I think "while" better conveys the continuous and ongoing protection Jesus provided through the power of His anointing.

Next, I think the phrase order should be rearranged, thus "While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

13. But now I am going to You, and I am saying these things in the world so that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves. (JOJ)
13. But now I come to you, and I say these things in the world, that they may have my joy made full in themselves. (WEB)

I did not find much in the way of alternative choices, so "But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves."

 

14. I have given them Your word, and the world hated them because they are not from the world, just as I am not from the world. (JOJ)
14. I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (WEB)

The first note of interest is JOJ translation as "from the world" vice the majority choice "of the world." I think JOJ's choice is better, more accurately reflecting the "out of" wording of the Greek. I chose "like" to shift the focus from origin to kinship.

Next, I am persuaded that JOJ is also spot on with the idea that His disciples were hated not because they had received God's word, but because their worldview rejected the world's value system and accepted God's value system.

Putting it all together, "I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world."

 

John 17:15:

15. I do not ask that You take them out of the world but that you might protect them from the evil one. (JOJ)
15. I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one. (WEB) ​

As before we will stick with ask rather than going for the more accurate but archaic beseech.

Next, I do not like the decision, endorsed by just about all modern translators, to interpret "the evil" as referring to Satan. Rather, I think the idea is to personify evil as an ungodly organism. Thus evil in any form (Satanic, worldly or fleshly) is what is in view. Specifically here the snares and tentacles of the world are in view.

Putting it all together: "I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil."

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His vision into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Even as you gave Him authority over all flesh that He will give eternal life to them you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me along side you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.​

 

John 17:16:

16. They are not from the world just as I am not from the world. (JOJ)
16. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. (WEB)​

As noted elsewhere, this verse repeats the message of verse 14, and consistent with my prior decision that "out of" concerns kinship or affiliation rather than point of origin, I use "like."
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.

 

John 17:17

17. Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth. (WEB) ​

Here, in this verse we have a treasure chest. Translations greatly differ. Here are some of the ideas as to the meaning:
1) Sanctify refers to progressive sanctification, as we study God's word, and apply it to our lives, we become more like Christ.
2) Sanctify refers to God setting us apart in truth.
3) Are we sanctified in truth or is the idea instrumentality, by truth.
4) Does "your word" refer to Gospel truths, or does "your Word" refer to the soon to be risen Christ.

Since Jesus is beseeching His Father to take the requested actions, I think set apart better captures the idea.

Next, since the request is to set His disciples apart, the action is by God and so the idea seems to be to be set apart in the Father's truth, whether Christ or the gospel. Because I think (in verse 19) Jesus is talking about going to the cross, laying down His life, as "sanctifying Himself" I conclude that "your Word" and your Truth refer to the risen Christ. Therefore:
Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.

 

John 17:18

As you sent me into the world, even so I have sent them into the world. (WEB) ​

I did not find any confusion as to how to translate this verse, so:
"Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world."

 

John 17:19

19. For their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. (WEB) ​

Again given the translational decisions used in verse 17, I render 19 as follows:
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth.

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His vision into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Even as you gave Him authority over all flesh that He will give eternal life to them you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me along side you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.
17. Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.
18. Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth. ​

 

You are as wrong on verse 16 as you were on verse 14. "Not like the world" is a rather weak and unfaithful interpretation.

They are not of the world, or they do not belong to the world would be much better.

And the latter part of the sentence : "even as I am not of it." (NIV) Or it could be rendered :"just as I do not belong to it."

 

Why change the wording in midstream? Retain the forms of the word sanctify in the verse.

Here's the NIV :

"For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified."

 

"Evil one" :NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, HCSB, ISV, NET, GWT, ASV, ERV, Weymouth, and WEB.

As part of the NET note says :"Jesus is praying for his disciples to be protected from Satan." Your "ungodly organism" nonsense is...well...nonsense.

 

Hi Mr. Rippon, thanks for contributing.

I will stick with "like" showing affiliation and kinship. I do not think point of origin is the idea at all.

Great question, that I did not address, on why I changed "sanctify" to set apart inconsistently. As you know Jesus lived a sinless life in order to go to the cross as the Lamb without blemish. Thus, when Jesus said, I sanctify myself, I saw it as more than just drinking the cup, but also capturing His lifelong consecration to holiness. But your observation valid, perhaps I zigged when I should have zagged.

I cannot address my view of the version you presented, because I might be flagged as engaging in "hate speech." Lets leave it that I think my version better captures the idea.

 

Mr. Rippon, I addressed why evil is consistent with the context, and evil one misses the mark. And the specific hazard in view is not Satan, but the World.

 

The phrases : "Of the world", and "belonging to the world" do not have the meaning you attribute to them.