Ellen White's Amalgamation of man and Beast Revisited

[vooks]

It all sort of boils down to this irrefutable post - and then the fact that back in the 19th century the Southern Baptists were supporting slavery while Ellen White condemned it as she argued that all races of man are fully human.

Why did she forbid White's marrying negroes?
Please devote some of your brains and time to William Lloyd Garrison. He did much more 30 years before EGW preached amalgamation

In 1867, one year before Smith published his defense of White’s words on amalgamation, Tennessee clergymen Buckner H. Payne published (under the pseudonym “Ariel”) the second edition of his book, The Negro: What is His Ethnological Status? (I have not been able to discover when the first edition appeared, whether before or after Spiritual Gifts.) Payne used a vocabulary of “crime” and “confusion” very close to White’s to explain Noah’s flood. God could not tolerate “the crime of amalgamation,” Payne wrote, that is, the sin of “association with beasts” that had produced various races. “For this crime God had destroyed the world, sown confusion broadcast at Babel,” he declared. “It is a crime that God has never forgiven, never will forgive, nor can it be propitiated by all the sacrifices earth can make or give.” But whereas Uriah Smith argued in defense of White’s prophetic authority that amalgamated blood is no worse than the blood of any sinner and that Christians must “labor for the improvement” of the “lower races,” Payne heaped vile abuse on those working to raise the political and social standing of African Americans. “The states or people that favor this equality…God will exterminate,” he said. “You cannot elevate a beast to the level of a son of God.”22

When placed alongside Payne’s racist screed, some might argue, Smith’s defense of White’s statements on amalgamation thus represented a significant advance in racial thinking for the time. For one thing, Payne does not assume that animal-human amalgamations produced African Americans. He assumes that blacks were created “beasts” to begin with, so that black-white “amalgamations” were in fact the original animal-human amalgamations. Payne’s use of the term “amalgamation” should dispense once and for all with F.D. Nichol’s claim (repeated by a number of Adventist writers since) that in mid-nineteenth century America the word was not used to describe animalhuman combinations. It clearly was. This is precisely why White was immediately understood by both her critics as well as Smith to be saying that racial differentiation was the result of animal-human hybridizations. It is nevertheless significant that Smith, in contrast to Payne, viewed non-European races as the corrupted products of animal-human relations but as humans nonetheless. Does this not show that the Adventist pioneers were far ahead of the rest of the country on questions of racial equality in their day?

Such a reading of early Adventism would, unfortunately, be historically misleading. Although White and the other Adventist leaders, as good New England Yankees, held progressive views on race and condemned the sin of slavery in ways that all Adventists can celebrate as a vital part of our heritage, they were not collectively as radical or forthright in their defense of racial equality as William Lloyd Garrison and others who most courageously championed the abolitionist cause as a matter of religious duty. Garrison, who was also a devout Christian, had been arguing for complete political and biological equality of the races from the 1830s on, going so far as to publicly burn a copy of the U.S. Constitution to protest its pro-slavery provisions during an abolitionist rally that included Henry David Thoreau and Sojourner Truth as speakers. But prophetic action for racial justice, especially after the Civil War ended, was typically subordinated by White and the other pioneers, Malcolm Bull and Keith Lockhart document, to advancing “the work”—that is, to recruiting and baptizing more members without challenging America’s racist social order.23

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1SkxJN3hRRmIzbFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
Page 9

 

[vooks]

Have been addressing that in my posts - but you apparently do not actually read the posts. Is there some other purpose that you have here if you are not interested in reading the actual posts and responding to the points??

Now that we have all seen how you shadow box and duck from common sense, allow me to proceed with serialization of my article. It is hoped that thinking members of this forum will intelligently and prayerfully weigh in :tongue3:

In her 1864 book, Spiritual Gifts: Important Facts of Faith in Connection with the History of Holy Men of Old, Ellen White wrote that much of what we see in the natural world is the result of what she described as “the base crime of amalgamation.” Her enigmatic words, long understood by Seventh-day Adventists to refer to perverse but somehow scientifically possible sexual unions across diverse species, including humans and other creatures, became a source of anti-Adventist polemics from the moment they first appeared in print. They remain among the most perplexing lines the prophetess ever penned. Much of the saga of early Adventist amalgamation theory was documented by Gordon Shigley in a 1982 article in Spectrum Magazine. Most Adventists will, however, be unaware of the historical facts, which have been omitted or at best hastily glossed over in all official church publications from the 1940s up to the present. In the light of ongoing discussions within the church over questions of faith and science, as well as recent attempts by some Adventists to revive White’s amalgamation statements as a plausible scientific explanation for the origins of some predatory animals, it is important to revisit what she and the other pioneers of the church actually said on the subjects of race, science, origins, and the “sin” of “amalgamated” blood.

I. “Since the Flood There has Been Amalgamation of Man and Beast”: Ellen White’s Original Statements and Her Modern Apologists​

After discussing various sins of the antediluvians, including polygamy and intermarriage between the righteous and the wicked, White proceeded in Spiritual Gifts to describe an additional evil that had “corrupted” humankind, resulting in God deciding to destroy the world in the flood:

“But if there was one sin above any other which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. God purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before him.”1​

In the next chapter, White then offered additional commentary on the “base crime of amalgamation,” suggesting by any straightforward reading of her words that the sin had in fact continued even after the flood, and had produced numerous species alive today that were not included in God’s original creation, as well as “certain races of men”:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1SkxJN3hRRmIzbFk/edit?usp=docslist_api Page 1

 

[vooks]

Have been addressing that in my posts - but you apparently do not actually read the posts. Is there some other purpose that you have here if you are not interested in reading the actual posts and responding to the points??

Page 2

“Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the Flood. Since the Flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.”2​

The de facto official Adventist interpretation of these passages from 1947 on (when church leaders convened an urgent meeting near San Francisco to listen to competing arguments from biologists Frank Marsh and Harold Clark on what to do with the scientifically and seemingly racially charged statements) was explained by F.D. Nichol in 1951 as follows: “when Mrs. White said, ‘amalgamation of man and beast,’ she meant (1) the amalgamation of [righteous and unrighteous] races of men, and (2) the amalgamation of species of animals. The first ‘defaced the image of God,’ the second ‘caused confusion everywhere.’”3

In his recent book, Dinosaurs: An Adventist View, self-publishing California lawyer David Read, whose ideas have been warmly endorsed by both past and present General Conference officials, supplements this explanation of White’s words with a novel reading of his own of what she must have meant when she spoke not only of pre but also of post-flood “amalgamation of man and beast.” White “used the term amalgamation to describe all genetic recombinations, whether manipulated or natural,” Read declares. “Post-Flood amalgamation was and is a natural process that was provided for by a benevolent Creator.”4

When White spoke of pre-flood amalgamations, Read meanwhile asserts, she was actually describing, under divine inspiration and using the best language available to her at the time, scientific facts that we are only now beginning to grasp, secret knowledge that even White herself could not comprehend but that Read believes we can now understand as a result of the discoveries of modern genetics. The antediluvians, he declares, possessed sophisticated technology (perhaps including “electron microscopes”) much more powerful than anything we possess today, as well as superior knowledge of DNA and genetic engineering.5 Acting under demonic influence, the antediluvian scientists used their evil ingenuity to meld different species of animals, going so far as to combine human and animal DNA in advanced genetics laboratories to create the dinosaurs (for unclear reasons but perhaps, Read speculates, to fight in arenas for the amusement of human spectators). God then destroyed these amalgamated creatures in Noah’s flood. The flood also destroyed the physical evidences of these facts, but we find clues to the existence of this hyper-advanced pre-flood civilization, Read maintains, in various statements by White and in unexplained mysteries of the ancient world such as the rock formations at Stonehenge, the prevalence of “amalgamated” beasts (including griffins, unicorns, and mermaids) in ancient stories and statuary, and Plato’s myth of the lost city of Atlantis.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1SkxJN3hRRmIzbFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
So BobRyan is actually regurgitating David Read without having thinking when he talks of preFlood Genetic engineering and cloning :laugh:

 

[vooks]

Have been addressing that in my posts - but you apparently do not actually read the posts. Is there some other purpose that you have here if you are not interested in reading the actual posts and responding to the points??

Page 3

According to Clifford Goldstein in a review of Read’s book published by Adventist Today, this is the explanation for the dinosaurs that “still makes the best sense.”6 In its 2010 “Statement on the Biblical Doctrine of Creation,” the Theological Seminary at Andrews University cites Read’s book in its list of suggested readings.7 One of White’s statements on amalgamation was meanwhile quoted as a plausible theory for the origins of the dinosaurs in a glossy five-part series of creationist flyers used by Southern Adventist University to promote its biology department during the 2010 General Conference session in Atlanta, Georgia (albeit not the passage alluding to “certain races of men”). During the 2010 GC session, Director of the Geoscience Institute, James Gibson, also offered a lecture (sponsored by the General Conference as part of its daily “Yes, Creation!” series) on the origins of predatory animals in which he asserted, without direct appeal to White’s amalgamation passages, that the best Adventist explanation for at least some creatures in nature is that they are the genetically reengineered creations of Satan (although Gibson offered no criterion for detecting demonic intelligent design in nature or distinguishing it from divine intelligent design.)

White’s statements on “amalgamation,” Adventist neo-amalgamation theories therefore suggest, do not mean what they plainly appear to say. Rather, they refer to no less than three completely separate processes: 1) the satanically orchestrated pre-flood melding or hybridization of animals that produced the dinosaurs and other predators some time within the past 10,000 years (whether performed supernaturally by Satan himself, or in a naturalistically possible way by depraved human scientists using genetic engineering techniques we can barely fathom); 2) the satanically inspired pre and post-flood intermarriage of righteous and wicked “races”; and 3) the providentially guided postflood genetic adaptation of organisms and people to their environments (essentially theistic microevolution), including the value-neutral creation of diverse human races after Noah’s family left the ark. These ideas, in convoluted and not always logically consistent ways, continue to play an important role in Adventist thinking on questions of faith and science at popular as well as institutional and even academic levels (at least judging from their inclusion in Southern Adventist University’s current marketing materials and among the texts commended to Adventist readers by the Theological Seminary at Andrews University).

II. “It is Impossible to Tell Where the Human Ends and the Animal Begins”: Uriah Smith’s Original Defense of White’s Scientific Authority​

Yet even if we allow that White’s statements on “amalgamation” are grammatically ambiguous and leave open the door to imaginative ad hoc interpretations such as these, these complex semantic arguments do not seriously wrestle with the question of what White’s use of the phrase “amalgamation of man and beast” in conjunction with “races of men” would have conveyed to most of her readers in the context of American slavery and mid-nineteenth century race theory (the Civil War was still raging when her statements first appeared in print). Beyond the logical problem of interpreting “races of men” as

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1SkxJN3hRRmIzbFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
It is quite self-evident that BobRyan is a is a big fan of David Read. Bob,it's sad that you believe this nonsense. How much did you pay for his book?
Next we examine Uriah Smith

 

[vooks]

Have been addressing that in my posts - but you apparently do not actually read the posts. Is there some other purpose that you have here if you are not interested in reading the actual posts and responding to the points??

Uriah Smith, Page 4

referring to the origins of wicked and righteous people as in F.D. Nichol’s apologetic construction (since wicked human beings are clearly assumed by White to be the cause and not the result of “the base crime of amalgamation,” and since she had already mentioned intermarriage between the righteous and wicked in Spiritual Gifts as a separate and lesser sin), the question we must face is: How was White understood by her readers at the time? And how did White respond, or not respond, to these interpretations? For Adventist scholars committed to rigorous methods of historical research as well as principles of reasonable inference from all of the available evidence, the answers to these questions will provide the most likely answer to the question of what White herself believed at the time.

The most important primary source we have in this regard is an 1866 defense of White’s prophetic gift written by Uriah Smith and published in serialized form in the fledgling denomination’s weekly journal, the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, of which Smith was the editor and James White the publisher at the time (hereafter Review and Herald). Smith’s concern was to uphold White’s authority and to counter various criticisms against her, including attacks by outsiders on her statements on amalgamation. He directly confronted her scientific detractors on the front page of the July 31 issue of the magazine beneath the title, “The Visions—Objections Answered.”8

The charge being leveled against the early Adventists in general and White in particular in the light of her amalgamation claims was that they did not believe that “the negro race” was fully human. Smith vigorously fought back. He did so, however, not by advancing the complex semantic arguments developed some 80 years later by Frank Marsh, F.D. Nichol, and subsequent generations of Adventists, nor by declaring unequivocally that African Americans are no less human than persons of European descent. Instead, Smith appealed to the findings of natural science and to common sense notions to validate White’s words.

“But does any one deny the general statement [by Ellen White that ‘amalgamation’ had produced ‘certain races of men’]?” Smith wrote. “If they did, they could easily be silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country.”[ The scientific evidence, he continued, supported beyond cavil White’s view that some humans are more closely related to the rest of the animal kingdom than others. “The naturalists affirm that the line of demarcation between the human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?”

Nevertheless, Smith argued, one could still legitimately speak of those races with “amalgamated blood” as being fully human since merely having “any of the original Adamic blood” in one’s veins was sufficient. It was not necessary “that God made every particle of blood that exists, in any human being,” Smith reasoned, and amalgamated blood was to be viewed no differently than “all the scrofulous, leprous, or syphilitic blood that courses in the worst transgressor's veins!”

Hence, no person in the present could be held morally accountable for “the ancient sin of amalgamation” that had produced the “certain races” White had spoken of.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1SkxJN3hRRmIzbFk/edit?usp=docslist_api

Isn't it curious what his defense was? He said 'scientifically', some races (negroes) were closer to animals which obviously means amalgamation was understood as beastiality. Little wonder she could never suffer negroes marrying whites

 

[BobRyan]

Smith and others argued falsely that Ellen White had been shown Jupiter in a vision/dream - though she never claimed any such thing. The fact that you cannot sustain your false accusations from what Ellen White actually said "is instructive".

I have never claimed that Uriah Smith had inspired messaged from God - nor has any other SDA that I know of -- and we have a lot of non-white SDAs as it turns out.

As for the fact that you don' know what you're talking about.
===========================================
[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At a time when slavery was an open question for Americans, Mrs. White declared that Adventists holding pro-slavery views were anathema [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even in the North, abolitionists were considered extremists. A few days after Pennsylvania Hall, built especially for abolitionist meeting Philadelphia, was first opened, a pro-slavery mob burned it to the ground. William Lloyd Garrison, commemorated today by a statue in Boston, was mobbed by Bostonians trying to tar and feather him for abolitionist agitation. As one historian has said, "To be an abolitionist in Boston, Philadelphia, or Cincinnati meant courting social ostracism, business ruin, and physical assault." [Ref 10] Frank Thistlewaite, America and the Atlantic Community (1959), p. 116[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Among the variety of anti-slavery groups, Adventists identified themselves with the radical, abolitionist minority. Sojourner Truth, one of the black heroines of abolition, visited a Millerite camp meeting in 1843, though she did not agree them. Years later she settled in Battle Creek. There she had Seventh day Adventist friends, and early Battle Creek College students often visited her. At least one edition of her biography printed by the Adventist’s - Review and Herald for its author, Frances Titus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joseph Bates the former sea captain who had so much to do with Adventists, accepting the Sabbath, first supported the American Colonization Society, later helped found the abolitionist society in his home town. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Even within this extreme reformist segment of American society some were more radical than others and Adventist stood with the more activist. "Abolitionists" were also divided on the matter of devoting time and energy to assisting fugitive slaves.[Ref 13:] Larry Gara, "Who Was an Abolitionist?" The Anti-Slavery Vanguard, p. 39[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Prominent Adventists had no such qualms. John Preston Kellogg, the father of John Harvey Kellogg and W[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]K. Kellogg was one of the incorporators of the Seventh Day Adventist publishing association and a member of the Seventh day Adventist Church to the end of his life. He used his farms in Michigan to harbor slaves fleeing their former owners. [Ref 14] SDA Encyclopedia (1966), pp. 650, 1060.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
John Byington. the first president of the General Conference of Seventh day Adventists had earlier left the Methodist Episcopal Church because it did not take a stand against slavery. At his farm in Buck's Bridge, New York, he maintained a station of the Underground Railroad, illegally transporting fugitive slaves from the South to Canada. [Ref 15] 15 SDA Encyclopedia (1966), p. 181
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anyone who thinks these men were aberrations with the Adventist Church should remember that Mrs. White herself said that, "the law of ou[FONT=&quot]r[/FONT] land requiring us to deliver a slave to his master, we are not to obey." [Ref 16] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 202[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Great men professing to have human hearts have seen the slaves almost naked and starving and have abused them and sent them back to their cruel masters hopeless bondage.... They have deprived them of their liberty and free air which heaven has never denied them, and then left them to suffer for food and clothing. In view of all this, a national fast is proclaimed! Oh, what an insult to Jehovah!" [Ref 23] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 257.[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

By contrast we have "Southern Baptist" who make this confession.

[FONT=&quot]http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/899/...nniversary-of-the-southern-baptist-convention[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Resolution On Racial Reconciliation On The 150th Anniversary Of The Southern Baptist Convention
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Atlanta, Georgia - 1995[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS, Since its founding in 1845, the Southern Baptist Convention has been an effective instrument of God in missions, evangelism, and social ministry; and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]…
WHEREAS, The Scriptures teach that Eve is the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20), and that God shows no partiality, but in every nation whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him (Acts 10:34-35), and that God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth (Acts 17:26); and

WHEREAS, Our relationship to African-Americans has been hindered from the beginning by the role that slavery played in the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; and

WHEREAS, In later years Southern Baptists failed, in many cases, to support, and in some cases opposed, legitimate initiatives to secure the civil rights of African-Americans; and[/FONT]


=============================================

[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptisthistory.org/sbaptistbeginnings.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
The meetings of the three Baptist national societies in the 1840s brought angry debates between Northerners and Southerners. These debates concerned the interpretation of the constitutions of the societies on slavery, the right of Southerners to receive missionary appointments, the authority of a denominational society to discipline church members, and the neglect of the South in the appointment of missionaries. The stage was set for separation.
In 1844, Georgia Baptists asked the Home Mission Society to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary in Georgia. After much discussion, the appointment was declined. A few months later, the Alabama Baptist Convention asked the Foreign Mission Society if they would appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. When the society said no, Virginia Baptists called for Baptists of the South to meet at Augusta, Georgia, in early May, 1845, for the purpose of consulting "on the best means of promoting the Foreign Mission cause, and other interests of the Baptist denomination in the South."
Thus, on May 8, 1845, about 293 Baptist leaders of the South gathered at the First Baptist Church, Augusta, Georgia, representing over 365,000 Baptists. They concluded, with expressions of regret from their own leaders and from distinguished northern Baptist leaders, that more could be accomplished in Christian work by the organization in the South of a separate Baptist body for missionary work. The Methodists in the South had already separated over the issue of slavery, and southern Presbyterians would do so later.

===========================
And then we have NY Times response

[FONT=&quot]The resolution was also striking because it addressed the very schism over slavery that created the denomination in the first place. In a move that foreshadowed the secession by Southern states on the eve of the Civil War, the denomination was formed in 1845 by Southern churchmen who broke from northern Baptists after a national Baptist agency refused to appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. [/FONT]

 

[vooks]

Smith and others argued falsely that Ellen White had been shown Jupiter in a vision/dream - though she never claimed any such thing. The fact that you cannot sustain your false accusations from what Ellen White actually said "is instructive".

I have never claimed that Uriah Smith had inspired messaged from God - nor has any other SDA that I know of -- and we have a lot of non-white SDAs as it turns out.

As for the fact that you don' know what you're talking about.
===========================================
[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At a time when slavery was an open question for Americans, Mrs. White declared that Adventists holding pro-slavery views were anathema [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even in the North, abolitionists were considered extremists. A few days after Pennsylvania Hall, built especially for abolitionist meeting Philadelphia, was first opened, a pro-slavery mob burned it to the ground. William Lloyd Garrison, commemorated today by a statue in Boston, was mobbed by Bostonians trying to tar and feather him for abolitionist agitation. As one historian has said, "To be an abolitionist in Boston, Philadelphia, or Cincinnati meant courting social ostracism, business ruin, and physical assault." [Ref 10] Frank Thistlewaite, America and the Atlantic Community (1959), p. 116[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Among the variety of anti-slavery groups, Adventists identified themselves with the radical, abolitionist minority. Sojourner Truth, one of the black heroines of abolition, visited a Millerite camp meeting in 1843, though she did not agree them. Years later she settled in Battle Creek. There she had Seventh day Adventist friends, and early Battle Creek College students often visited her. At least one edition of her biography printed by the Adventist’s - Review and Herald for its author, Frances Titus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joseph Bates the former sea captain who had so much to do with Adventists, accepting the Sabbath, first supported the American Colonization Society, later helped found the abolitionist society in his home town. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Even within this extreme reformist segment of American society some were more radical than others and Adventist stood with the more activist. "Abolitionists" were also divided on the matter of devoting time and energy to assisting fugitive slaves.[Ref 13:] Larry Gara, "Who Was an Abolitionist?" The Anti-Slavery Vanguard, p. 39[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Prominent Adventists had no such qualms. John Preston Kellogg, the father of John Harvey Kellogg and W[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]K. Kellogg was one of the incorporators of the Seventh Day Adventist publishing association and a member of the Seventh day Adventist Church to the end of his life. He used his farms in Michigan to harbor slaves fleeing their former owners. [Ref 14] SDA Encyclopedia (1966), pp. 650, 1060.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
John Byington. the first president of the General Conference of Seventh day Adventists had earlier left the Methodist Episcopal Church because it did not take a stand against slavery. At his farm in Buck's Bridge, New York, he maintained a station of the Underground Railroad, illegally transporting fugitive slaves from the South to Canada. [Ref 15] 15 SDA Encyclopedia (1966), p. 181
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anyone who thinks these men were aberrations with the Adventist Church should remember that Mrs. White herself said that, "the law of ou[FONT=&quot]r[/FONT] land requiring us to deliver a slave to his master, we are not to obey." [Ref 16] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 202[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Great men professing to have human hearts have seen the slaves almost naked and starving and have abused them and sent them back to their cruel masters hopeless bondage.... They have deprived them of their liberty and free air which heaven has never denied them, and then left them to suffer for food and clothing. In view of all this, a national fast is proclaimed! Oh, what an insult to Jehovah!" [Ref 23] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 257.[/FONT]

Garbage from SDA gutters
Did EGW forbid interracial marriages between negros and whites?

 

[vooks]

By contrast we have "Southern Baptist" who make this confession.

[FONT=&quot]http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/899/...nniversary-of-the-southern-baptist-convention[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Resolution On Racial Reconciliation On The 150th Anniversary Of The Southern Baptist Convention
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Atlanta, Georgia - 1995[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WHEREAS, Since its founding in 1845, the Southern Baptist Convention has been an effective instrument of God in missions, evangelism, and social ministry; and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]…
WHEREAS, The Scriptures teach that Eve is the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20), and that God shows no partiality, but in every nation whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him (Acts 10:34-35), and that God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth (Acts 17:26); and

WHEREAS, Our relationship to African-Americans has been hindered from the beginning by the role that slavery played in the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; and

WHEREAS, In later years Southern Baptists failed, in many cases, to support, and in some cases opposed, legitimate initiatives to secure the civil rights of African-Americans; and[/FONT]


=============================================

[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptisthistory.org/sbaptistbeginnings.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
The meetings of the three Baptist national societies in the 1840s brought angry debates between Northerners and Southerners. These debates concerned the interpretation of the constitutions of the societies on slavery, the right of Southerners to receive missionary appointments, the authority of a denominational society to discipline church members, and the neglect of the South in the appointment of missionaries. The stage was set for separation.
In 1844, Georgia Baptists asked the Home Mission Society to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary in Georgia. After much discussion, the appointment was declined. A few months later, the Alabama Baptist Convention asked the Foreign Mission Society if they would appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. When the society said no, Virginia Baptists called for Baptists of the South to meet at Augusta, Georgia, in early May, 1845, for the purpose of consulting "on the best means of promoting the Foreign Mission cause, and other interests of the Baptist denomination in the South."
Thus, on May 8, 1845, about 293 Baptist leaders of the South gathered at the First Baptist Church, Augusta, Georgia, representing over 365,000 Baptists. They concluded, with expressions of regret from their own leaders and from distinguished northern Baptist leaders, that more could be accomplished in Christian work by the organization in the South of a separate Baptist body for missionary work. The Methodists in the South had already separated over the issue of slavery, and southern Presbyterians would do so later.

===========================
And then we have NY Times response

[FONT=&quot]The resolution was also striking because it addressed the very schism over slavery that created the denomination in the first place. In a move that foreshadowed the secession by Southern states on the eve of the Civil War, the denomination was formed in 1845 by Southern churchmen who broke from northern Baptists after a national Baptist agency refused to appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. [/FONT]

Did EGW forbid interracial marriages between negros and whites?

 

[BobRyan]

Isn't this the part where you tell everyone how glad you are that the Southern Baptists formed over the determination to hold slaves in south and so also Methodist and Presbyterian southern divisions - and how wrong Ellen White was to insist that all races are equal in the sight of God??

Tell everyone how you "condemn" this --

[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360

[FONT=&quot]============================== then

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]then remind us all how you pra[FONT=&quot]is[FONT=&quot]e this --

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptisthistory.org/sbaptistbeginnings.htm[/FONT]

The meetings of the three Baptist national societies in the 1840s brought angry debates between Northerners and Southerners. These debates concerned the interpretation of the constitutions of the societies on slavery, the right of Southerners to receive missionary appointments, the authority of a denominational society to discipline church members, and the neglect of the South in the appointment of missionaries. The stage was set for separation.
In 1844, Georgia Baptists asked the Home Mission Society to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary in Georgia. After much discussion, the appointment was declined. A few months later, the Alabama Baptist Convention asked the Foreign Mission Society if they would appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. When the society said no, Virginia Baptists called for Baptists of the South to meet at Augusta, Georgia, in early May, 1845, for the purpose of consulting "on the best means of promoting the Foreign Mission cause, and other interests of the Baptist denomination in the South."
Thus, on May 8, 1845, about 293 Baptist leaders of the South gathered at the First Baptist Church, Augusta, Georgia, representing over 365,000 Baptists. They concluded, with expressions of regret from their own leaders and from distinguished northern Baptist leaders, that more could be accomplished in Christian work by the organization in the South of a separate Baptist body for missionary work. The Methodists in the South had already separated over the issue of slavery, and southern Presbyterians would do so later.

 

[vooks]

Isn't this the part where you tell everyone how glad you are that the Southern Baptists formed over the determination to hold slaves in south and so also Methodist and Presbyterian southern divisions - and how wrong Ellen White was to insist that all races are equal in the sight of God??

Tell everyone how you "condemn" this --

[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360

[FONT=&quot]============================== then

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]then remind us all how you pra[FONT=&quot]is[FONT=&quot]e this --

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptisthistory.org/sbaptistbeginnings.htm[/FONT]

The meetings of the three Baptist national societies in the 1840s brought angry debates between Northerners and Southerners. These debates concerned the interpretation of the constitutions of the societies on slavery, the right of Southerners to receive missionary appointments, the authority of a denominational society to discipline church members, and the neglect of the South in the appointment of missionaries. The stage was set for separation.
In 1844, Georgia Baptists asked the Home Mission Society to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary in Georgia. After much discussion, the appointment was declined. A few months later, the Alabama Baptist Convention asked the Foreign Mission Society if they would appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. When the society said no, Virginia Baptists called for Baptists of the South to meet at Augusta, Georgia, in early May, 1845, for the purpose of consulting "on the best means of promoting the Foreign Mission cause, and other interests of the Baptist denomination in the South."
Thus, on May 8, 1845, about 293 Baptist leaders of the South gathered at the First Baptist Church, Augusta, Georgia, representing over 365,000 Baptists. They concluded, with expressions of regret from their own leaders and from distinguished northern Baptist leaders, that more could be accomplished in Christian work by the organization in the South of a separate Baptist body for missionary work. The Methodists in the South had already separated over the issue of slavery, and southern Presbyterians would do so later.

BobRyan, would you object to your daughter marrying a black man? just like your prophetess?

 

[BobRyan]

The answer to your childish prank is actually in the post that you are not reading...

==============================================

Smith and others argued falsely that Ellen White had been shown Jupiter in a vision/dream - though she never claimed any such thing. The fact that you cannot sustain your false accusations from what Ellen White actually said "is instructive".

I have never claimed that Uriah Smith had inspired messaged from God - nor has any other SDA that I know of -- and we have a lot of non-white SDAs as it turns out.

As for the fact that you don' know what you're talking about.
===========================================
[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At a time when slavery was an open question for Americans, Mrs. White declared that Adventists holding pro-slavery views were anathema [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even in the North, abolitionists were considered extremists. A few days after Pennsylvania Hall, built especially for abolitionist meeting Philadelphia, was first opened, a pro-slavery mob burned it to the ground. William Lloyd Garrison, commemorated today by a statue in Boston, was mobbed by Bostonians trying to tar and feather him for abolitionist agitation. As one historian has said, "To be an abolitionist in Boston, Philadelphia, or Cincinnati meant courting social ostracism, business ruin, and physical assault." [Ref 10] Frank Thistlewaite, America and the Atlantic Community (1959), p. 116[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Among the variety of anti-slavery groups, Adventists identified themselves with the radical, abolitionist minority. Sojourner Truth, one of the black heroines of abolition, visited a Millerite camp meeting in 1843, though she did not agree them. Years later she settled in Battle Creek. There she had Seventh day Adventist friends, and early Battle Creek College students often visited her. At least one edition of her biography printed by the Adventist’s - Review and Herald for its author, Frances Titus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joseph Bates the former sea captain who had so much to do with Adventists, accepting the Sabbath, first supported the American Colonization Society, later helped found the abolitionist society in his home town. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Even within this extreme reformist segment of American society some were more radical than others and Adventist stood with the more activist. "Abolitionists" were also divided on the matter of devoting time and energy to assisting fugitive slaves.[Ref 13:] Larry Gara, "Who Was an Abolitionist?" The Anti-Slavery Vanguard, p. 39[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Prominent Adventists had no such qualms. John Preston Kellogg, the father of John Harvey Kellogg and W[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]K. Kellogg was one of the incorporators of the Seventh Day Adventist publishing association and a member of the Seventh day Adventist Church to the end of his life. He used his farms in Michigan to harbor slaves fleeing their former owners. [Ref 14] SDA Encyclopedia (1966), pp. 650, 1060.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
John Byington. the first president of the General Conference of Seventh day Adventists had earlier left the Methodist Episcopal Church because it did not take a stand against slavery. At his farm in Buck's Bridge, New York, he maintained a station of the Underground Railroad, illegally transporting fugitive slaves from the South to Canada. [Ref 15] 15 SDA Encyclopedia (1966), p. 181
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Anyone who thinks these men were aberrations with the Adventist Church should remember that Mrs. White herself said that, "the law of ou[FONT=&quot]r[/FONT] land requiring us to deliver a slave to his master, we are not to obey." [Ref 16] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 202[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Great men professing to have human hearts have seen the slaves almost naked and starving and have abused them and sent them back to their cruel masters hopeless bondage.... They have deprived them of their liberty and free air which heaven has never denied them, and then left them to suffer for food and clothing. In view of all this, a national fast is proclaimed! Oh, what an insult to Jehovah!" [Ref 23] Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 257.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[vooks]

The answer to your childish prank is actually in the post that you are not reading...

==============================================



[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Grow up BobRyan,
Why did Ellen White forbid negroes from marrying whites?
Why did she call it fanaticism?

 

[BobRyan]

The answer to your childish prank is actually in the post that you are not reading...

And then I posted it "again" for you to "read".

It has the answer to your question.

But sadly -you must read to see it.

You have free will - you may choose the path upward or downward as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

But if you prefer the post that does not deal with your all-consuming marriage question -- read this one.

Isn't this the part where you tell everyone how glad you are that the Southern Baptists formed over the determination to hold slaves in south and so also Methodist and Presbyterian southern divisions - and how wrong Ellen White was to insist that all races are equal in the sight of God??

Tell everyone how you "condemn" this --

[FONT=&quot]"God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in his hands. He will punish the South for the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]... At the Roosevelt conference, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting and prayer, Sabbath, Aug. 3, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision, and shown the [FONT=&quot]sin of slavery[/FONT]."[/FONT] -Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1861


[FONT=&quot]God is punishing this nation for the high crime of slavery[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. He has the destiny of the nation in His hands. He will punish the South for the sin of slavery, and the North for so long suffering its overreaching and overbearing influence.{1T 264.1}[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the Conference at Roosevelt, New York, August 3, 1861, when the brethren and sisters were assembled on the day set apart for humiliation, fasting, and prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon us, and I was taken off in vision and shown the sin of slavery, which has so long been a curse to this nation. The fugitive slave law was calculated to crush out of man every noble, generous feeling of sympathy that should arise in his heart for the oppressed and suffering slave. It was in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. God’s scourge is now upon the North, because they have so long submitted to the advances of the slave power. The sin of Northern proslavery men is great. They have strengthened the South in their sin by sanctioning the extension of slavery; they have acted a prominent part in bringing the nation into its present distressed condition.{1T 264.2}[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"'You have never looked upon slavery in the right light, and your views of this matter have thrown you on the side of the Rebellion, which was stirred up by Satan and his host. Your views of slavery cannot harmonize with the sacred, important truths for this time. You must yield your views or the truth. Both cannot be cherished in the same heart, for they are at war with each other. . . . Unless you undo what you have done, it will be the duty of God's people to publicly withdraw their sympathy and fellowship from you, in order to save the impression which must go out in regard to us as a people. We must let it be known that we have no such ones in our fellowship, that we will not walk with them in church capacity.'"[Ref 5] Testimonies, vol. 7. , pp. 359, 360

[FONT=&quot]============================== then

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]then remind us all how you pra[FONT=&quot]is[FONT=&quot]e this --

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.baptisthistory.org/sbaptistbeginnings.htm[/FONT]

The meetings of the three Baptist national societies in the 1840s brought angry debates between Northerners and Southerners. These debates concerned the interpretation of the constitutions of the societies on slavery, the right of Southerners to receive missionary appointments, the authority of a denominational society to discipline church members, and the neglect of the South in the appointment of missionaries. The stage was set for separation.
In 1844, Georgia Baptists asked the Home Mission Society to appoint a slaveholder to be a missionary in Georgia. After much discussion, the appointment was declined. A few months later, the Alabama Baptist Convention asked the Foreign Mission Society if they would appoint a slaveholder as a missionary. When the society said no, Virginia Baptists called for Baptists of the South to meet at Augusta, Georgia, in early May, 1845, for the purpose of consulting "on the best means of promoting the Foreign Mission cause, and other interests of the Baptist denomination in the South."
Thus, on May 8, 1845, about 293 Baptist leaders of the South gathered at the First Baptist Church, Augusta, Georgia, representing over 365,000 Baptists. They concluded, with expressions of regret from their own leaders and from distinguished northern Baptist leaders, that more could be accomplished in Christian work by the organization in the South of a separate Baptist body for missionary work. The Methodists in the South had already separated over the issue of slavery, and southern Presbyterians would do so later.

 

[vooks]

But if you prefer the post that does not deal with your all-consuming marriage question -- read this one.

You are a real kid in a man's body throwing tantrums. Did I write this?

But there is an objection to the marriage of the white race with the black. All should consider that they have no right to entail upon their offspring that which will place them at a disadvantage; they have no right to give them as a birthright a condition which would subject them to a life of humiliation. The children of these mixed marriages have a feeling of bitterness toward the parents who have given them this lifelong inheritance. For this reason, if there were no other, there should be no intermarriagebetween the white and the colored race."

In reply to inquiries regarding the advisability of intermarriage between Christian young people of the white and black races, I will say that in my earlier experience this question was brought before me, and the light given me of the Lord was that this step should not be taken; for it is sure to create controversy and confusion. I have always had the same counsel to give. No encouragement to marriages of this character should be given among our people. Let the colored brother enter into marriage with a colored sister who is worthy, one who loves God, and keeps His commandments. Let the white sister who contemplates uniting in marriage with the colored brother refuse to take this step, for the Lord is not leading in this direction. Time is too precious to be lost in controversy that will arise over this matter. Let not questions of this kind be permitted to call our ministers from their work. The taking of such a step will create confusion and hindrance. It will not be for the advancement of the work or for the glory of God".

"You have no license from God to exclude the colored people from places of worship. Treat them as Christ's property, which they are, just as much as yourselves. They should hold membership in the church with the white brethren. Every effort should be made to wipe out the terrible wrong [slavery] which has been done them. At the same time we must not carry things to extremes and run into fanaticism on this question. Some would think it right to throw down every partition wall and intermarry with the colored people, but this is not the right thing to teach or practice."

http://www.richardlemay.com/AUD/EGW/2SM/HTM/SelectedMessages2-42.html

 

[vooks]

And then I posted it "again" for you to "read".

It has the answer to your question.

But sadly -you must read to see it.

You have free will - you may choose the path upward or downward as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan,
Stop kidding yourself. In its over 150 years, SDA has NEVER produced a hero of any form nor championed ANY cause above its contemporaries save sabbath keeping. Catholicism has Mother Theresa for instance.

If you want to know how 'radical' EGW was in her anti-slavery stance, you need to study SECULAR history and not your own hallucinated history. Where is EGW ever mentioned for her abolitionist rants? Nowhere.

Contrast her with William Lloyd Garrison;
- somebody put a $5,000 bounty on him
- they could not stand his speeches and they used to disrupt them
- he once burnt the U.S. constitution in protest against slavery

On the other hand, EGW,the supposed 'last prophet' was busy teaching how negroes descended from apes and how they were to NEVER marry whites. She was another average lackluster sect leader infamous for her epic prophecy fails:laugh:

Look at William Llyod
http://spartacus-educational.com/USASgarrison.htm
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/William_L._Garrison

And his famous 1854 speech NO COMPROMISE WITH THE EVIL OF SLAVERY",
http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/185/civil...promise-with-the-evil-of-slavery-speech-1854/

 

[BobRyan]

You are a real kid in a man's body throwing tantrums. Did I write this?
http://www.richardlemay.com/AUD/EGW/2SM/HTM/SelectedMessages2-42.html

Well I stated the obvious -

The ANSWER is in the post you refuse to actually read - #26

Oh no wait! The answer is also continued in your own post!! #36

 

[vooks]

The answer to your childish prank is actually in the post that you are not reading...

Page 6of Amalgamation Revisited
Was Uriah Smith writing for himself of presenting the 'official position'?

“Has any one a right to try to use it to their prejudice? By no means.” We “are to take all races and peoples as we find them,” Smith wrote. “And those who manifest sufficient powers of mind to show that they are moral and accountable beings, are of course to be esteemed as objects of regard and philanthropic effort.” Christians had a duty to “labor for the improvement” of the lower races. “Whatever race of men we may take, Bushmen, Hottentots, Patagonians, or any class of people, however low they may apparently be in the scale of humanity, their mental capabilities are in every instance the basis on which we are to work, and by which we determine whether they are subjects of moral government or not.”

III. “The General and Michigan Conference Resolved”: The Church Endorses Smith’s Reading​

The 1866 article was unsigned by Smith even though most articles from the period and in the July 31 issue included clear author attribution, hinting that it may have been intended as a declaration of the journal’s if not the Adventist church’s consensus understanding. But the evidence that Smith spoke not only for himself but also for a broader Adventist community is not merely circumstantial or stylistic. Careful readers of the journal would have discovered that Smith was the author of the “Objections Answered” articles from a brief note included at the back of the June 12 issue, which marked the start of the series. The note—which to my knowledge has not been discussed previously in any article dealing with the amalgamation problem—reads as follows:

“It may be proper here to state that this manuscript [‘Objections to the Visions’] was prepared before our late Conference; but its publication was withheld till it could be submitted to the ministering brethren who might then assemble, for them to decide upon its merits, and the disposition that should be made of it. It was examined by them, and received their approval, with a decision that it should be published.”9​

Most of the manuscript, the short notice continued, was in fact read aloud before a joint session of the General and Michigan State Conferences, leading to an official action by church leaders:

“Resolved, That we, the members of the General and Mich. State Conference, having heard a portion of the manuscript which has been prepared by Bro. U. Smith, in response to certain objections recently brought against the visions of Sister White, do hereby express our hearty approval of the same. Resolved, That we tender our thanks to Bro. Smith for his able defense of the visions against the attacks of their opponents.’”10​

The fact that the body that Ellen White described in 1875 as “the highest authority that God has on earth” passed a resolution of “hearty approval” for Smith’s manuscript and thanks for “his able defense of the visions”—including, by every indication, his race

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxrT0F-mwJf1M3ZzU1lEYVZmSUU/edit?usp=docslist_api

So Uriah taugh amalgamation was beastiality and the GC adopted this as true

 

[BobRyan]

On the other hand, EGW,the supposed 'last prophet' was busy teaching how negroes descended from apes

You and your evolutionist brothers do teach that - but as was proven to you - Ellen White did not teach it.

Having failed to make your case - you go back to quoting "vooks text" as if anyone here takes vooks as valid source.

1. [FONT=&quot]Before the flood[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]“confused species” of animals existed – according to Ellen White. [/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]GMO pre-flood marred the image of God. EGW[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]Man’s great sin – [/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]Bible says “All Flesh Corrupt” Gen 6[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]After the flood[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]EGW never talks about “confused species of man” either before or after the flood.[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]No mention of marring the image of God via amalgamation after the flood.[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]No mention that the many races of man after the flood marred the image of God.[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]No mention of amalgamation of animal species after the flood being sin.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]Obvious facts from science today.[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]More species of animals today than could have been on the ark.[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]More races of man today than got off the boat in Noah’s day[/FONT]
   • [FONT=&quot]Mixing humans and animals results in new species if it were to happen – not new races of man.[/FONT]
4. [FONT=&quot]Ellen White argues that all races of man are equal in the sight of God.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot] 1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]

Odd ball evolutionist and Vooks-text rants.
" EGW,the was busy teaching how negroes descended from apes "

how sad that vooks-text

In real life we have:

[FONT=&quot]"Christ came to this earth with a message of mercy and forgiveness. He laid the foundation for a religion by which Jew and Gentile, black and white, free and bond, are linked together in one common brotherhood, recognized as equal in the sight of God."
1 Testimonies, vol. 7. P. 225[/FONT]