How Many Resurrections In Revelation?

[Darrell C]

I suggested reading comprehension in post #9 after you said the following in post #6:



However in post #2 I stated:



So you see you are wrong again. I mention the Second and Last Resurrection in The passage from Revelation 11 and again in the passage from Revelation 20. I still suggest you take reading comprehension or run from the pre-trib-rapture-ready folks!

So how about the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses in CH.11? That is the only resurrection in the chapter that doesn't have to be read into it.

How about the resurrections that are spaced one thousand years apart? Clearly not the same resurrections.

Only by ignoring sequence can one possibly make the First Resurrection the first in sequence, seeing it is impossible to make the Two Witnesses raptured at the end of the Tribulation.

Let's start there.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Since revmwc has already hijacked the thread it might be interesting to see what John F. Walvoord, a contemporary dispensational theologian, and former president of the Dallas Theological Seminary has t say about the number of resurrections. The information is excerpted from Major Bible Prophecies, page 376ff.




Seven, count them, seven resurrections and the First Resurrection of Revelation is actually the sixth resurrection and is called the First because it occurs before the seventh. How is that for circular reasoning or eisegesis or twisting Scripture to fit a false doctrine.

You are the one hijacking the thread, but no one here is surprised since you do the same thing in every thread. Doesnt matter the OP. You are consumed and therefore bound. And when you can't doctrinally address the responses you resort to attacking your antagonist.

Its humorous this post is actually the most relevant I've seen yet and you identify it as off topic.

I disagree with the above. There are not seven resurrections in Revelation.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

I voted 3.

1. Christ: Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2. Found in at least 4 verses which I believe will take place at the same time: Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. V5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.V6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

3. The final: Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Side question, If I am correct, which resurrection will the thief on the cross be a part of? Considering:

Luke 23:42,43 and he said to Jesus, 'Remember me, lord, when thou mayest come in thy reign;' and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee To-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
Rev 2:7 He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming -- I will give to him to eat of the tree of life that is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 22:2,14 in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, is a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree are for the service of the nations; 'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

They will both be raised in the General Resurrection of all the dead as Jesus Christ Himself said in John 5:28, 29:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

One of the thieves was saved, the other was not. Both will be raised in the General Resurrection as clearly shown in the above Scripture!

 

[Darrell C]

Since revmwc has already hijacked the thread it might be interesting to see what John F. Walvoord, a contemporary dispensational theologian, and former president of the Dallas Theological Seminary has t say about the number of resurrections. The information is excerpted from Major Bible Prophecies, page 376ff.




Seven, count them, seven resurrections and the First Resurrection of Revelation is actually the sixth resurrection and is called the First because it occurs before the seventh. How is that for circular reasoning or eisegesis or twisting Scripture to fit a false doctrine.

And thought it might be helpful to point out this is not exclusive to Revelation.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

So how about the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses in CH.11? That is the only resurrection in the chapter that doesn't have to be read into it?

How about the resurrections that are spaced one thousand years apart? Clearly not the same resurrections?

Only by ignoring sequence can one possibly make the First Resurrection the first in sequence, seeing it is impossible to make the Two Witnesses raptures at the end of the Tribulation.

Let's start there.


God bless.

Don't blame me if you have been brainwashed by Darby's pre-trib-"snatching away" doctrine and, contrary to dispensational hermeneutic of "literal interpretation of Scripture" completely ignore the words of Jesus Christ in John 5:28, 29:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Darrell C]

They will both be raised in the General Resurrection of all the dead as Jesus Christ Himself said in John 5:28, 29:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

One of the thieves was saved, the other was not. Both will be raised in the General Resurrection as clearly shown in the above Scripture!

Please address post 41.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Don't blame me if you have been brainwashed by Darby's pre-trib-"snatching away" doctrine and, contrary to dispensational hermeneutic of "literal interpretation of Scripture" completely ignore the words of Jesus Christ in John 5:28, 29:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My doctrine can discuss all resurrection events.

Yours cannot.

Address post 41. You have disrupted this thread enough already.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

My doctrine can discuss all resurrection events.

Yours cannot.

My doctrine is Biblical, yours is not:

John 5:28, 29:
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Address post 41. You have disrupted this thread enough already.

You raised the question and I answered it so quit whining. You have not refuted anything I have said. Furthermore, I did not derail the thread.

Let me first apologize to the one who started the OP for the high jacking that has taken place.

 

[Darrell C]

I voted 3.

1. Christ: Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

2. Found in at least 4 verses which I believe will take place at the same time: Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. V5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.V6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

3. The final: Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


Side question, If I am correct, which resurrection will the thief on the cross be a part of? Considering:

Luke 23:42,43 and he said to Jesus, 'Remember me, lord, when thou mayest come in thy reign;' and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee To-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
Rev 2:7 He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming -- I will give to him to eat of the tree of life that is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 22:2,14 in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, is a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree are for the service of the nations; 'Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

What about the Two Witnesses, do you see them as men or something else?

Just my opinion but I lean towards Old Testament Saints rising in the Rapture. Abraham is said to be a part of the Kingdom which would imply resurrection and seeing that the Old Testament Saints have been perfected through the Work of Christ (perfection is not glorification) I see them as falling into the category of dead in Christ.

I would add that we do not see physical resurrection when Christ returns other that the Tribulation Martyrs, which could be raised physically only, and live one thousand years seeing men live longer in the Kingdom, but glorification seems more likely.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

My doctrine is Biblical, yours is not:

John 5:28, 29:
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



You raised the question and I answered it so quit whining. You have not refuted anything I have said. Furthermore, I did not derail the thread.

Address post 41.

Show why the Two Witnesses are not resurrected and raptured as Scripture clearly states. Show how the resurrection that is not present in Revelation 11 (though you read one into the text because through a spiritualization of the text and shoddy cross referencing that also ignores the text's meaning), the First Resurrection, and the resurrection just prior to the Great White Throne are all the same resurrection.

Address it or find another thread.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Please address post 41.

DC's post #41!

So how about the resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses in CH.11? That is the only resurrection in the chapter that doesn't have to be read into it?

You interpret that passage literally in a book written in symbolic language. You tell me how you apply a literal interpretation to the following passage of Scripture and I will explain the two witnesses to you!

John 6:48-59
48. I am that bread of life.
49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

How about the resurrections that are spaced one thousand years apart? Clearly not the same resurrections?

Actually it has been almost 2000 years!

Only by ignoring sequence can one possibly make the First Resurrection the first in sequence, seeing it is impossible to make the Two Witnesses raptures at the end of the Tribulation.

Let's start there.

I showed you the resurrection that takes place in Revelation in post#2. If you are unable to understand than take a course in reading comprehension with revmac!

From my post#2:

Anyone who attempts to understand the Book of Revelation as a chronological record of events is doomed to failure in understanding its message. That message is that the Saints, the "true believers", all the redeemed of all time, emerge triumphant over Satan and Evil through Jesus Christ our LORD!

 

[OldRegular]

You read the OP. So does that mean you do not feel you have to abide by the OPs request to discuss resurrection in Revelation alone?

You do this in every thread OR.

Abide by the request, please.


God bless.

Don't be childish. I have already responded to the OP in Post #2. You don't like what I said that is your mistake. But this is a debate forum!

 

[OldRegular]

Please refrain from personal attacks. Some of us would like to talk about the OP.

The OP!

Simple question, let's see how simple the answers are.

I would ask that in this thread there be no reference to any extra biblical source whatsoever. Answers are to be taken from Scripture alone. We are discussing the singular question of the OP alone.

God bless.

Post #2, My response to the OP. Notice I show that there is only one resurrection in Revelation and support that by additional Scripture. Notice also that I use no source other than Scripture! No one has yet responded to this post other than denial! I have taken the liberty of providing additional emphasis for those who have difficulty!

Jesus Christ had already raised Himself from the dead. He is the FIRST RESURRECTION and only Resurrection to date. The Second Resurrection, and the LAST RESURRECTION, is first described in John 5:28, 29 in the Words of Jesus Christ, as follows:

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Of course in John 6 Jesus Christ speaks of this Resurrection occurring at the Last Day, as follows:

John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

In the above Scripture Jesus Christ is talking about the resurrection of the Saints, the "true believers" at the LAST DAY, the Resurrection of John 5:28, 29, the Second and Last Resurrection!


The resurrection that Jesus Christ talks about in John 5:28, 29 above is shown again at the sound of the Seventh and Last Trumpet in Revelation.

Revelation 11:15-19
15. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Verse 15, above, is a restatement in part of that which the Apostle Paul wrote in:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Revelation 11:15. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Referring back to Revelation 11:18 above we see mention of the judgment, both of the servants of God, the Saints, and then of the unbeliever:

Revelation 11:18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

We are shown a similar scene in

Revelation 20:11-15
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Anyone who attempts to understand the Book of Revelation as a chronological record of events is doomed to failure in understanding its message. That message is that the Saints, the "true believers", all the redeemed of all time, emerge triumphant over Satan and Evil through Jesus Christ our LORD!

!

 

[OldRegular]

Interesting. You expect there will be sinners in the Eternal State.

So now the millennial earthly reign is the Eternal State???????:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

Don't apologize, my friend. I actually started this thread with an underlying goal of forcing our a-mil antagonists to actually address relevant issues or have their inability to do so...exposed.

And I addressed them in Post #2. The thread should have been closed then since the question was answered!

 

[OldRegular]

You are the one hijacking the thread, but no one here is surprised since you do the same thing in every thread. Doesnt matter the OP. You are consumed and therefore bound. And when you can't doctrinally address the responses you resort to attacking your antagonist.

Its humorous this post is actually the most relevant I've seen yet and you identify it as off topic.

I disagree with the above. There are not seven resurrections in Revelation.


God bless.

You disagree!! You disagree!! Old John Walvoord is probably rolling over in his grave.

 

[revmwc]

Thanks for the post and keeping the condition of the OP.

I am not sure I would include those in Heaven already, though I do agree the Church is there, but there is no specific mention or detail of a resurrection (i do see john called up to correspond to the rapture in the timeline). Also, I saw no mention of the Two Witnesses. And lastly do you view Antichrist as being resurrected or do you feel that may just be chicanery on his and Satan's part, not an actual resurrection?


God bless.

I later posted I forgot to add the resurrection of the two witnesses. The Beast doesn't die revelation 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." The beast doesn't die according to this one of the heads that a nation dies and is healed, wouldn't that be the Roman Empire that was wounded and comes back or another nation is the confederation?

 

[revmwc]

I take the position believers will die in the Kingdom. You don't think the above distinguishes between the deaths of believers and unbelievers?


God bless.

Revelation 20 says that they lived with Him for 1000 years. The only exception would be the unbeliever as I stated in Isaiah 65. The believer who is a sinner at 100 will be accursed. But it doesn't record them dieing, in fact in Isaiah it says a man tills the land and enjoys the fruit and it doesn't become the property of his son or something to that effect I posted it in this OP.

 

[Darrell C]

DC's post #41!



You interpret that passage literally in a book written in symbolic language. You tell me how you apply a literal interpretation to the following passage of Scripture and I will explain the two witnesses to you!

John 6:48-59
48. I am that bread of life.
49. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

It is explained in the text: eating and drinking is placing faith in Christ's death. The problem is that seclude a portion of text and read into it what you want. You are the determiner if truth instead of Scripture.

Your turn. Show why the Two witnesses are not literally two men who are resurrected and raptures.

Actually it has been almost 2000 years!

Oh so you believe the Lord has returned and we are in the Eternal State.

That is what Scripture teaches. Can't be denied.

I showed you the resurrection that takes place in Revelation in post#2. If you are unable to understand than take a course in reading comprehension with revmac!

From my post#2:

First, you are using the First Resurrection for Christ's resurrection which is clearly not the resurrection seen in CH.20.

Secondly, you have been asked specifically about these three distinct resurrections in Revelation. Christs resurrection doesn't take place during the events depicted in Revelation.

Third, you show me the resurrection shown in John, not Revelation.

And lastly you hgavwe failed to show which of the events in revelation that resurrection is and why the others resurrections are not separate resurrections.

In the First Resurrection it is clear unbelievers are not raised. In the resurrection before the Great White unbelievers are raised as prophesied when the First Resurrection takes place.

And the resurrection and rapture we actually see in chapter 11...only two literal men are raised.

Your turn.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The OP!



Post #2, My response to the OP. Notice I show that there is only one resurrection in Revelation and support that by additional Scripture. Notice also that I use no source other than Scripture! No one has yet responded to this post other than denial! I have taken the liberty of providing additional emphasis for those who have difficulty!



!

Amazing. It is your contention there is only one resurrection that is the focus.

You have avoided actually answering the texts and questions posed to you.

As pertaining to resurrection there are without question three clear resurrections: the Two Witnesses, the First Resurrection, and the resurrection just prior to the Great White Throne.

Why are they not resurrections? Despite the fact that Revelation is clear they are.

God bless.