Featured John Nelson Darby vs Baptist Confessions of Faith

Have you checked all the volumes of Christian literature all over the world, in every library (both personal and public) in every language, starting from Darby and going back to the Apostles just to make absolutely sure that "no one" believed in the pre-trib rapture.
Otherwise you are absolutely wrong.

 

I explained it for you in post #95 and again just a couple of posts ago.
Here it is again:

"NO one" means absolutely no one." How can you prove that absolutely no one has believed in a pre-trib rapture before Darby, since you are absolutely sure that Darby is the Father and originator of it. He is the first. But you can't prove that others didn't believe in it before him, and it is impossible for you to do so.
The libraries of the world are very extensive, especially since they don't even all exist between Darby and Christ.

 

The post I gave told you about each man and when he lived and taught, the thing is you said no one taught pre-trib, pre-mil, according to this they did.

Did you miss it let me show you again:

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) "was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just."

let's check another:

"Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

And another:

"Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. The book Pseudo Ephraim was one of his still existing works. It was called “Pseudo” because of later dispute over authorship. However the book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:

In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:

“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time."

I highlighted a few in red text so you won't miss them. These as you see were before Darby's time or do you consider these as darbyist too?

 

When I recopied it for the other I didn't grab that pat part. I can grab it and repost it entirely if you want me too. It tells you about each and the main thing that it is relvent to doesn't change the fact that all three taught a pre-trib catching away. But let me just grab the whole thing since I was accused of leaving it out on purpose.

Here you go just so the whole thing is here,

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) "was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just."

let's check another:

"Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

And another:

"Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. The book Pseudo Ephraim was one of his still existing works. It was called “Pseudo” because of later dispute over authorship. However the book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:

In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:

“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.

Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!”

 

Wait I know something better I can make it a thread of its own!

 

Do you understand why your post is logical fallacy? It can't be proven.
In logic it is called a "universal negative."

The most common one we here is the atheist saying: "There is no God."
That is another universal negative. How can he prove there is no God?
Has he looked everywhere? Under every rock, in every canyon? On every planet? In every solar system? On all the stars? In absolutely every place where God could be found?
Of course not!
To say "there is no God," is to say "I have looked every possible place in the universe where God could be found," an impossibility. It is a universal negative.

You have done the same thing.
"NNE has shown that Darby is not the Father pre-trib..."

It is a statement impossible for you to prove.
How can you possibly interview all people between Darby and Christ to find out whether or not they believed in a pre-trib rapture. If but one person believed, then your premise is wrong.
For ONE did believe, and then Darby is not the Father...

 

DHK;

...[/QUOTE]

When you google it on Wikipedia...they are not confused about it;

Darby is noted in the theological world as the father of "dispensationalism", later made popular in the United States by Cyrus Scofield's Scofield Reference Bible.


Darby is credited with originating the "rapture" theory wherein Christ will suddenly remove His bride, the Church, from this world before the judgments of the tribulation


Authors generally maintain that the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was then popularized in the 1830s by John Darby.[14][15] Others, including Grant Jeffrey, maintain that an earlier document called Ephraem or Pseudo-Ephraem already supported a pre-tribulation rapture.[16]

Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[17] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bi


Although not using the term "rapture", the idea was more fully developed by Edward Irving (1792–1834). In 1825,[35] Irving directed his attention to the study of prophecy and eventually accepted the one-man Antichrist idea of James Henthorn Todd, Samuel Roffey Maitland, Robert Bellarmine, and Francisco Ribera, yet he went a step further. Irving began to teach the idea of a two-phase return of Christ, the first phase being a secret rapture prior to the rise of the Antichrist. Edward Miller described Irving's teaching like this: "There are three gatherings: – First, of the first-fruits of the harvest, the wise virgins who follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth; next, the abundant harvest gathered afterwards by God; and lastly, the assembling of the wicked for punishment."[36]

John Nelson Darby first proposed and popularized the pre-tribulation rapture in 1827.[37] This view was accepted among many other Plymouth Brethren movements in England. Darby and other prominent Brethren were part of the Brethren movement which impacted American Christianity, especially with movements and teachings associated with Christian eschatology and fundamentalism

 

Let's put your statement in another way that you can't deny.
Darby is the father of pre-trib rapture.

That is the nutshell of the statement of which you have added to and expanded throughout various threads and forums.

Darby is the father of the blasphemous pre-trib, premill dispy position which has spread their poisonous doctrine everywhere.

Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture and no one has ever shown it to be otherwise.

Or,
Your actual statement:
""NNE has shown that Darby is not the Father pre-trib..."

To the above you have quoted Ice, Sperry, Ryrie, etc., all of whom are not on this board. So, no you weren't referring to those on this board.

 

You always do the same thing!