Renouncing the Catholic faith formally

[JonC]

Actually, eating meat on Friday was once a mortal sin according to the church.

Lakeside is just going to say that doesn't count. It's a cult.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You avoided annsi's point. Eating meat was a mortal sin. Now it is not, except on good Friday. Is that correct? Why and how can this be changed. After Vatican II, a loophole appeared. You didn't not answer her, you just gave the prepared Catholic dodge.

It was never a mortal sin

 

[annsni]

It was never a mortal sin

I'm sorry but that's wrong:

Since the number of days of fast and abstinence are greatly reduced, it would be a mortal sin if someone KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY and INTENTIONALLY ate meat on a Friday of Lent or on Ash Wednesday or ate between meals or ate more than one full meal on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday. Former manuals spoke of 4 oz or more to violate the fast as a mortal sin, less than 4 oz being venial; 2 oz of meat to violate abstinence, less for venial. Today, we do not get into the number game.

http://ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=327418&language=en

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually, eating meat on Friday was once a mortal sin according to the church.

Actually no.....you aren't going to hell for an obligatory action that was only designed forfasting. If you wantonly killed someone...if you didn't go to their church...that was interperted as a mortal sin..Thank heavens for confession (a sacrument)...it expunges your sins. At least that's the way the nuns and Jesuits taught me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm sorry but that's wrong:



http://ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=327418&language=en

Yea well he is wrong....another EWTN expert.:rollseyes:

 

[annsni]

Actually no.....you aren't going to hell for an obligatory action that was only designed forfasting. If you wantonly killed someone...if you didn't go to their church...that was interperted as a mortal sin..Thank heavens for confession (a sacrument)...it expunges your sins. At least that's the way the nuns and Jesuits taught me.

Yea well he is wrong....another EWTN expert.:rollseyes:

I'm sorry EWF but you are wrong in this. If a person deliberately ate meat on a Friday, they would have committed a mortal sin.

So, if a person ate meat on Friday with the full intention of completely breaking their relationship with God and Church, then that person is in mortal sin and God will judge him accordingly.

http://catholicvu.com/3006 MORTAl SIN.htm

But what of mortal sin?
Before considering mortal sin with respect to Friday abstinence it’s important to briefly recall what holds for any mortal sin: For a sin to be sufficiently serious that it is ‘mortal’ there are three conditions that must hold: the matter itself must be grave (i.e. when considered in the abstract, apart from the person acting, the thing itself being done must be serious), the person acting needs to fully know what he or she is doing, and the person acting needs to give deliberate consent to what they are doing (CCC 1857). When sins are referred to in the abstract as ‘mortal’ it is always the matter of the sin that is being discussed.

Friday Abstinence and Grave Matter
In our modern society, and in the contemporary Church, the notion of penance has almost entirely faded from the popular consciousness. As a consequence, it is difficult for us to appreciate just how gravely important the pre-modern Christian Tradition considered penance to be. Yet, even a casual reading of saints and pre-modern scholars indicates a different set of priorities, and the pre-Conciliar teaching that breaking the law of Friday abstinence was 'grave matter' for mortal sin is something that can be found in any of the older Manuals of moral theology: The Manualists argued that the seriousness of the Christian obligation to do penance, combined with its specification by Church law, means that this is a matter of mortal sin. This said, they also argued that the matter of this sin is such that the quantity of meat eaten and the frequency with this is done would affect whether the sin concerned was a matter of venial sin or mortal sin. To consider another example, the sin of theft is also a mortal sin and one that similarly admits of what is called ‘parvity of matter’, i.e. if you are only stealing something small like a grape then the matter is not substantial enough for it to be the grave matter that constitutes a mortal sin. Concerning Friday abstinence, however, there was no consensus among the Manualists as to how much meat, or with what frequency, constituted 'grave matter' for mortal sin.

http://fatherdylanjames.blogspot.com/2011/09/friday-abstinence-and-mortal-sin.html

 

[lakeside]

The Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ and contains all the truth that God intends for us to know.

We are created to know Jesus Christ, to love Him and serve Him. A life spent without knowing Jesus Christ is wasted and without hope.

Jesus Christ is God made flesh through the blessed Virgin Mary. No one can truly know God unless they come to know Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ came to show the world its terrible state of darkness, its need for redemption, the unthinkable love of God for all humanity, and the glorious potential of all human being.

Jesus Christ revealed His love throughout His life, but particularly on the cross, where He willingly subjected Himself to the agonizing death of a slave in order to save sinners.

Jesus Christ lives and reigns today in heaven. He sends His Spirit to be with His church and disciples so that the whole world can know Him.

Jesus Christ is still in the world today. He is fully present in all Catholic tabernacles in the world in the form of Bread and Wine. He is the Bread of Life which He invites all faithful to consume and thereby receive Life from above.

Have pity on me, O Lord, and give me Jesus!

 

[annsni]

The Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ and contains all the truth that God intends for us to know.

Jesus Christ did not start the Catholic church. That was started by men.

We are created to know Jesus Christ, to love Him and serve Him. A life spent without knowing Jesus Christ is wasted and without hope.

Jesus Christ is God made flesh through the blessed Virgin Mary. No one can truly know God unless they come to know Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ came to show the world its terrible state of darkness, its need for redemption, the unthinkable love of God for all humanity, and the glorious potential of all human being.

Jesus Christ revealed His love throughout His life, but particularly on the cross, where He willingly subjected Himself to the agonizing death of a slave in order to save sinners.

Jesus Christ lives and reigns today in heaven. He sends His Spirit to be with His church and disciples so that the whole world can know Him.

With this I agree.

Jesus Christ is still in the world today. He is fully present in all Catholic tabernacles in the world in the form of Bread and Wine. He is the Bread of Life which He invites all faithful to consume and thereby receive Life from above.

This I totally disagree with except that Jesus is with us today. Jesus is not present in wheat and wine. These are created things.

Have pity on me, O Lord, and give me Jesus!

Amen.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You know what....I just cant stand formal religion. It is not God to send anyone to hell, we do that ourselves. Christ came into this world to save all who was given to Him by the Father. That is a doctrine I will stand by because its validated by the scripture. Other than that, oh well.

These days, after conversion into Christianity, its the Bible & the Holy Spirit. Ive no trust in man.

 

[DHK]

The Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ and contains all the truth that God intends for us to know.

No, the Bible contains all that a person needs to know. The RCC doctrine is in a state of constant flux ever changing with the political winds of time.
Answer this post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2227926&postcount=158

We are created to know Jesus Christ, to love Him and serve Him. A life spent without knowing Jesus Christ is wasted and without hope.

One has to know Jesus before they can serve Him. What does the RCC teach about "knowing" Christ, about having a personal relationship with him? They don't. They teach that salvation is through the church, through baptism, through the keeping of the sacraments. This is totally opposite to what the Bible teaches. Someday those that believe these things will answer to Christ:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--Salvation is not dependent on what you do, but rather on Who you know.

Jesus Christ is God made flesh through the blessed Virgin Mary. No one can truly know God unless they come to know Jesus Christ.

--Then why do you come to Mary first, and ask her for intercession.
"Hail Mary full of grace...blah, blah, blah..."
You treat her as your intercessor and not Christ. That is blasphemy.

Jesus Christ came to show the world its terrible state of darkness, its need for redemption, the unthinkable love of God for all humanity, and the glorious potential of all human being.

--Your doctrines of Purgatory, indulgences, Mariolatry, and other such doctrines demonstrate that you don't believe the above statement. You don't believe that Christ came to the world to die for our sins or to provide redemption. If you did you wouldn't believe in either baptismal regeneration or in Purgatory.

Jesus Christ revealed His love throughout His life, but particularly on the cross, where He willingly subjected Himself to the agonizing death of a slave in order to save sinners.

--Does that mean everyone is saved--absolutely everyone in the world?
What does that have to do with the Catholic's salvation. It is a good fact to know, but how is a person saved? You still don't know do you? The RCC Catechism says, "new birth = salvation," and that is only found in the RCC. That is heresy.

Jesus Christ lives and reigns today in heaven. He sends His Spirit to be with His church and disciples so that the whole world can know Him.

Yeah? What "church" is that? Do you personally know "His Spirit?" How?
If you don't or don't know that you know Him, then how is the rest of the world going to "know him"?

Jesus Christ is still in the world today. He is fully present in all Catholic tabernacles in the world in the form of Bread and Wine. He is the Bread of Life which He invites all faithful to consume and thereby receive Life from above.

Nice sweet platitudes, but heretical!
What does the Bible say:

Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
--A very apt verse for the RCC

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
--God is not present in any of the RCC churches nor in any other church. He does not dwell in any building. You are deceived. He doesn't dwell within anything made by the hand of man, including the bread and wine of the RCC. There is nothing made by man in which God dwells. This scripture alone refutes that.
It is God that gives life to man; not man that gives life to God.
The RCC has it backwards. You are even more superstitious than the pagan idolaters on Mars' Hill in Athens during the time of Paul.

Have pity on me, O Lord, and give me Jesus!

Indeed you need his mercy.

and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--If you don't KNOW Jesus; have no personal relationship with him, you have no hope. You need to make sure of that. That hope does not stem from the RCC, and not from any church at all.

 

[lakeside]

DHK, your thoughts on this subject are contrary to the Bible. For the Bible tells us that it is the "church," not the Bible, albeit that Sacred Holy Scripture is all important if under the correct and only interpretation as by how the Canonical List of Holy Books that comprise our Holy Bible was used and accepted by you also. In short, only One Interpretation period.
You cannot find one verse that simply says that the Holy Bible is more important than the church, not one, yet there are more than a few that tells us that the church is all that Jesus really Loves, Cares about and gives Authority to. So start finding those bible verses that gives more authority to the Bible than the church.

 

[DHK]

DHK, your thoughts on this subject are contrary to the Bible. For the Bible tells us that it is the "church," not the Bible, albeit that Sacred Holy Scripture is all important if under the correct and only interpretation as by how the Canonical List of Holy Books that comprise our Holy Bible was used and accepted by you also. In short, only One Interpretation period.
You cannot find one verse that simply says that the Holy Bible is more important than the church, not one, yet there are more than a few that tells us that the church is all that Jesus really Loves, Cares about and gives Authority to. So start finding those bible verses that gives more authority to the Bible than the church.

I give you a lengthy post with plenty of Scripture and you can't refute it so you just deny it. Pitiful!
Scripture?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
--This one verse alone condemns the RCC and its doctrines. By OT standards its priest would be taken outside the camp and be stoned to death for preaching heresy.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
--Every pope, every individual who has ever promoted a false doctrine such as purgatory, baptismal regeneration, all the extra biblical doctrines concerning Mary (assumption, Immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, etc.), all should be stoned.

The Word of God is always the standard, always!
How do we know? The same way the Israelites knew.

Deuteronomy 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
--One failure; one wrong doctrine, one false prophesy; and they were stoned.

The RCC is not God's church and never has been.
It is not in accordance with God's Word.
God has given man His Word. You have it backwards and always have.
The authority is God, not you, not the RCC.
You cannot command God. God commands you. He does so through His word.

 

[Rebel]

You know what....I just cant stand formal religion. It is not God to send anyone to hell, we do that ourselves. Christ came into this world to save all who was given to Him by the Father. That is a doctrine I will stand by because its validated by the scripture. Other than that, oh well.

These days, after conversion into Christianity, its the Bible & the Holy Spirit. Ive no trust in man.

I think you've got that right.

I appreciate fellowship, but true fellowship is hard to find.

 

[lakeside]

DHK, show me those Verses from the Bible { NT } where Jesus said that it was the Bible, not the church that He Loved, gave Authority to, or centered His new Christian Faith upon.

 

[DHK]

DHK, show me those Verses from the Bible { NT } where Jesus said that it was the Bible, not the church that He Loved, gave Authority to, or centered His new Christian Faith upon.

First, Jesus is the Word:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
--He is the revelation of God to us.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
--There is no one that is more important than Christ. Only through Christ (the Word) is their salvation. Only through Christ, the Word, are we able to know God.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
--He is referred to as the second person of the Triune Godhead.

1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
--It was through Christ that He gave witness to the Father, and the Father gave witness of the Son.
If one denies this witness he denies the record, that is the Word of God, the revelation, that God has given of his Son.

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
--This is the record (right here in His Word) that God has given to us eternal life. This life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
--You either have eternal life or you don't. Good works have nothing to do with this. The record is here in God's word and it is verified by God's witness of His Son. Either you believe it or you don't. Do you have eternal life? Are you absolutely sure? On what basis?

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--John wrote this, not the RCC.
He wrote to those who believe on the name of the Son of God--the basis of salvation (sola scriptura and sola fide), that you may KNOW that you have eternal life (eternal security), and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is written. It is the Word of God. It is God's Word that must be trusted.
Either you have eternal life or you don't. There is no guessing, no hoping, no working toward it, etc. It is an absolute surety, or you don't have it at all.
Thus it is written.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[lakeside]

DHK, you still haven't given the Verses from the NT where Jesus says that the Bible [ His Word ] is more authoritative than His church, or where Jesus tells us that He loves the Holy Bible/ Holy Sacred Scripture more than His church or preaches that the Bible, not the church, is centered upon His newly formed Christian Faith.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

"Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think you've got that right.

I appreciate fellowship, but true fellowship is hard to find.

We should all just leave well enough alone. Nobody is going to convert anyone without it being evident that the Holy Spirit does the work of Grace....then the person receiving the Grace will respond , but not before,,,and we all know this to be true. So what's the big problem I don't understand. Yea let's insult the Catholic, let's give him the unvarnished truth.....right, how absurd. All youvedone is alieniate these guys.....

 

[DHK]

DHK, you still haven't given the Verses from the NT where Jesus says that the Bible [ His Word ] is more authoritative than His church, or where Jesus tells us that He loves the Holy Bible/ Holy Sacred Scripture more than His church or preaches that the Bible, not the church, is centered upon His newly formed Christian Faith.

I gave you countless verses. Why did you ignore them. Go and meditate on them. The first verse that comes to mind is:

1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[lakeside]

DHK, you still have not quoted any Verse or Verses from the Lord Jesus in the NT of your KJV Bible that tells us that the Bible or Holy NT Scriptures are more authoritative than His church, that Jesus loved the Holy Bible or Holy Sacred Scripture more than His Church, that Jesus preached that his new found Christian faith was formed or based on his Bible and not His Church, you still are neglectful in pointing out those verses, it should be an easy task for you to accomplish, for if you can't, it will only be proven that your whole position on Sola Scriptura is collapsing in ruins.