The Messianic Kingdom?

[DHK]

I did and the HE is Jesus Christ. And I am not alone in that belief. However, you hunt up a sleazy paraphrase, the CEV, which renders Daniel 9:27 as follows:

Daniel 9:27 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
27 For one week this foreigner will make a firm agreement with many people, and halfway through this week, he will end all sacrifices and offerings. Then the “Horrible Thing” that causes destruction will be put there. And it will stay there until the time God has decided to destroy this one who destroys.

Now consider how this verse is rendered in legitimate translations:

Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 American Standard Version (ASV)
27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 New King James Version (NKJV)
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version (ESV)
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Daniel 9:27 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Daniel 9:27 World English Bible (WEB)
27 He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out on the desolate.

Now where do the people who wrote the CEV get the word "foreigner"? Where do they find the name "Horrible Thing"? Out of the pit of hell or the mind of Satan I suspect. There is no other explanation! It was sick of you to use that blasphemous rendering to slime me! Darby's translation does not blaspheme like the CEV but is consistent with all the others.

Daniel 9:27Darby Translation (DARBY)
27 And he shall confirm a covenant with the many [for] one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and because of the protection of abominations [there shall be] a desolator, even until that the consumption and what is determined shall be poured out upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
27 And he {a} shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to {b} cease, {c} and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The CEV is a paraphrase, not a translation. In a paraphrase it is a much looser translation where the person or persons take much more liberty.

Footnotes to 1599 Geneva Bible:

{a} Daniel 9:27. By the preaching of the Gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

{b} Daniel 9:27. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

{c} Daniel 9:27. Meaning, that Jerusalem and the Sanctuary should be utterly destroyed for their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague shall be so great, that they shall be all astonied at them.

{I include the notes from the1599 Geneva Bible because they confirm my understanding of Daniel 9:27.}

This has nothing to do with translation. It is equivalent to reading the footnotes in either the Douay Rheims (RCC) Bible, or those in the NWT (J.W's) translation. Both are uninspired. The notes in the Geneva are based on the current theology of the day.

As the CEV indicates, the he is not Christ.
Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version (ESV)
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
--It is the Antichrist that will make a covenant with Israel for one week of seven years--a pact of peace. Then in the middle of that week, he will desecrate the temple, putting an end to the sacrifice and offering by desecrating the Temple. The "he," the one to come, will bring desolation. It is all about the Antichrist to come. Each of those translations say the same thing.

 

[revmwc]

The claim is made by some pre-trib-dispensational scholars that Jesus Christ came to offer the Messianic Kingdom to the Jews or Israel; that Israel rejected the offer and????????

Frankly I can find nothing in Scripture where an offer of the Messianic Kingdom is made. I can find much in Scripture where the Jews rejected the message of Jesus Christ and ultimate, led by the high priest Caiaphas, conspired to have HIM crucified on a Roman cross!

I realize many will say: "Still beating that dead horse"! However, people should understand what that dead horse really is.

Consider the following from:{http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/eschatology/dispensationalism/dispensationalist-beliefs-israel-and-the-kingdom-of-god-by-william-e-cox/}



John F. Walvoord was one of the leading scholars of pre-trig-dispensational doctrine. He served as professor of systematic theology and president of the Dallas Theological Seminary from 1952 to 1986. Following are some remarks by Walvoord on the offer of the Kingdom and its rejection taken from his book Major Bible Prophecies, pages 206ff.! I have taken the liberty of highlighting certain parts.



There are two statements in Walvoord's remarks that are troubling:

1. With this background of rejection, Jesus recognized that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming.

2. In a similar way the Israelites’ widespread unbelief at this point in the life of Christ changed his message from one of offering the kingdom to one of contemplating what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him.

It seems that in both of these statements Walvoord is implying that the rejection of the supposed offer of the kingdom comes as a surprise to Jesus Christ. If that is what he means he is questioning the deity of Jesus Christ!

1. Jesus recognized that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming.[/b]

2.contemplating what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him.[/b]

You center in on two thoughts instead of taking the complete and entire thought that was conveyed. Let's break this down, Jesus recognized, merriam webster on Recognize: to know and remember (someone or something) because of previous knowledge or experience. Given that Jesus had previous knowledge "that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming."
So no Jesus wasn't surprised.

Webster on contemplate, to view or consider with continued attention : meditate on ,to view as contingent or probable or as an end or intention "what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him."

He meditated on the fact of "what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him."

So again your premise of what you think he said and the balance of the statement bears out that he was not saying what you surmise, but it was being as I stated in fact in God's plan, which Jesus in His deity already knew.

 

[OldRegular]

The CEV is a paraphrase, not a translation. In a paraphrase it is a much looser translation where the person or persons take much more liberty.

As the CEV indicates, the he is not Christ.
Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version (ESV)
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
--It is the Antichrist that will make a covenant with Israel for one week of seven years--a pact of peace. Then in the middle of that week, he will desecrate the temple, putting an end to the sacrifice and offering by desecrating the Temple. The "he," the one to come, will bring desolation. It is all about the Antichrist to come. Each of those translations say the same thing.

No one made the CEV GOD that I know of. Their blasphemous paraphrase of Daniel 9:27 is sufficient to indicate it is totally untrustworthy!

 

[OldRegular]

1. Jesus recognized that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming.[/b]

2.contemplating what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him.[/b]

You center in on two thoughts instead of taking the complete and entire thought that was conveyed. Let's break this down, Jesus recognized, merriam webster on Recognize: to know and remember (someone or something) because of previous knowledge or experience. Given that Jesus had previous knowledge "that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming."
So no Jesus wasn't surprised.

Webster on contemplate, to view or consider with continued attention : meditate on ,to view as contingent or probable or as an end or intention "what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him."

He meditated on the fact of "what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him."

So again your premise of what you think he said and the balance of the statement bears out that he was not saying what you surmise, but it was being as I stated in fact in God's plan, which Jesus in His deity already knew.

Walvoords comments about Jesus Christ lead one to believe that he had doubts as to what Jesus Christ knew about HIS rejection and therefore raises questions as to whether he believed that Jesus Christ was fully GOD. As the Apostle Paul said: Colossians 2:9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

There can be no division in the Godhead. What the Father knows the Son and Holy Spirit must also know. If you don't believe that you are in serious trouble!

 

[OldRegular]

The CEV is a paraphrase, not a translation. In a paraphrase it is a much looser translation where the person or persons take much more liberty.

The paraphrase of Daniel 9:27 is as I said straight out of the pit of hell or the mind of Satan.

This has nothing to do with translation. It is equivalent to reading the footnotes in either the Douay Rheims (RCC) Bible, or those in the NWT (J.W's) translation. Both are uninspired. The notes in the Geneva are based on the current theology of the day.

As the CEV indicates, the he is not Christ.

It is certain that the CEV paraphrase of Daniel 9:27 is inspired by someone other than GOD!

Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version (ESV)
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
--It is the Antichrist that will make a covenant with Israel for one week of seven years--a pact of peace. Then in the middle of that week, he will desecrate the temple, putting an end to the sacrifice and offering by desecrating the Temple. The "he," the one to come, will bring desolation. It is all about the Antichrist to come. Each of those translations say the same thing.

You are wrong but you are entitled to believe what you will.

 

[OldRegular]

The CEV is a paraphrase, not a translation. In a paraphrase it is a much looser translation where the person or persons take much more liberty.

Originally posted by OldRegular
Footnotes to 1599 Geneva Bible:

{a} Daniel 9:27. By the preaching of the Gospel he confirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

{b} Daniel 9:27. Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

{c} Daniel 9:27. Meaning, that Jerusalem and the Sanctuary should be utterly destroyed for their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague shall be so great, that they shall be all astonied at them.

{I include the notes from the1599 Geneva Bible because they confirm my understanding of Daniel 9:27.}

This has nothing to do with translation. It is equivalent to reading the footnotes in either the Douay Rheims (RCC) Bible, or those in the NWT (J.W's) translation. Both are uninspired. The notes in the Geneva are based on the current theology of the day.

They are far superior to the notes in the Scofield Bible. I would say the theology of the reformers is far superior to that of Darby, Scofield, and dispensationalism in general. The reformers at least had the Biblical view of the Church for which Jesus Christ died!

 

[revmwc]

Now consider how this verse is rendered in legitimate translations:

Daniel 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Keil & Delitzsch

"Hävernick, Hengstenberg, and Auberlen regard the Messias as the subject, and understand by the confirming of the covenant, the confirming of the New Covenant by the death of Christ. Ewald, v. Lengerke, and others think of Antiochus and the many covenants which, according to 1 Macc. 1:12, he established between the apostate Jews and the heathen Greeks. Hitzig understands by the “covenant” the O.T. Covenant, and gives to הגבּיר the meaning to make grievous: The one week shall make the covenant grievous to many, for they shall have to bear oppression on account of their faith. On the other hand, Hofmann (Schriftbew.) renders it: The one week shall confirm many in their fidelity to the faith. But none of these interpretations can be justified. The reasons which Hengstenberg adduces in support of his view that the Messias is the subject, are destitute of validity. The assertion that the Messias is the chief person spoken of in the whole of this passage, rests on the supposition, already proved to be untenable, that the prince who was to come (Daniel 9:26) was the instrument of the Anointed, and on the passages in Isaiah 53:11; Isaiah 42:6, which are not parallel to that under consideration. The connection much more indicates that Nagid is the subject to הגבּיר, since the prince who was to come is named last, and is also the subject in the suffix of קצּו (his end), the last clause of Daniel 9:26 having only the significance of an explanatory subordinate clause. Also “the taking away of the daily sacrifice combines itself in a natural way with the destruction (Daniel 9:26) of the city and the temple brought about by the הבּא נגיד;” - further, “he who here is represented as 'causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease' is obviously identical with him who changes (Daniel 7:25) the times and usages of worship (more correctly: times and law)” (Kran.). “The reference of הגבּיר to the ungodly leader of an army, is therefore according to the context and the parallel passages of this book which have been mentioned, as well as in harmony with the natural grammatical arrangement of the passage,” and it gives also a congruous sense, although by the Nagid Titus cannot naturally be understood. בּרית הגבּיר means to strengthen a covenant, i.e., to make a covenant strong (Hitzig has not established the rendering: to make grievous). “Covenant” does not necessarily mean the covenant of God (Old Testament or New Testament Covenant), since the assertion that this word occurs only in this book with reference to the covenant of God with Israel (Hgstb.) does not also prove that it must here have this meaning; and with expression בּרית הגבּיר with ל is analogous to בּרית כּרּת [icere faedus] with ל; and the construction with ל signifies that as in the forming of a covenant, so in the confirming of a covenant, the two contracting parties are not viewed as standing on an equality, but he who concludes or who confirms the covenant prevails, and imposes or forces the covenant on the other party. The reference to the covenant of God with man is thus indeed suggested, yet it is not rendered necessary, but only points to a relation analogous to the concluding of a covenant emanating from God. לרבּים with the article signifies the many, i.e., the great mass of the people in contrast with the few, who remain faithful to God; cf. Matthew 24:12. Therefore the thought is this: That ungodly prince shall impose on the mass of the people a strong covenant that they should follow him and give themselves to him as their God.
While the first clause of this verse announces what shall happen during the whole of the last week, the second treats only of the half of this period. השׁבוּע חצי we cannot grammatically otherwise interpret than the definition of time mentioned immediately before, and thus, for reasons give above, cannot take it as the subject of the clause, but only as the accusative of the duration of time, consequently not in the sense of the ablative: in the midst of the week. The controversy whether חצי here means half, or midst, has no bearing on the matter, and acquires significance only if we interpret חצי, in opposition to the context, as synonymous with בּחצי, or with Klief., which is equally untenable and impossible in this context, regard השׁבוּע חצי as an absolute definition. חצי signifies only half, not midst. Only where the representation of an extent of space or period of time prevails can we render it, without a change of its meaning, by the word midst. In the half of the night is the same as in the middle of the night, at midnight, Exodus 12:29; in the half of the firmament, Joshua 10:13, is the same as in the middle of the space of the heavens across which the sun moves during day; in the half of the day of life is the same as in the middle of the period of life, Psalm 102:25. But during the half of the week is not the same as: in the middle of the week. And the objection, that if we here take חצי in the sense of half, then the heptad or cycle of seven would be divided into two halves (Klief.), and yet of only one of them was anything said, is without significance, because it would touch also the explanation “and in the midst of the heptad,” since in this case of the first, before the middle of the expiring half of the week, nothing also is said of what shall be done in it. If Kliefoth answers this objection by saying that we must conceive of this from the connection, namely, that which brings the power of Antichrist to its height, then we shall be able also, in the verbally correct interpretation of השׁבוּע חצי, to conceive from the connection what shall happen in the remaining period of the שׁבוּע. Yet weaker is the further objection: “that which is mentioned as coming to pass השׁבוּע חצי, the causing of the offering of sacrifice to cease, is something which takes place not during a period of time, but at a terminus” (Kliefoth); for since השׁבּית does not properly mean to remove, but to make to rest, to make quiet, it is thus not conceivable why we should not be able to say: The sacrifice shall be made to rest, or made still, during half a week."

This says the he is the ungodly prince and/or the anti-christ.

 

[revmwc]

Walvoords comments about Jesus Christ lead one to believe that he had doubts as to what Jesus Christ knew about HIS rejection and therefore raises questions as to whether he believed that Jesus Christ was fully GOD. As the Apostle Paul said: Colossians 2:9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

There can be no division in the Godhead. What the Father knows the Son and Holy Spirit must also know. If you don't believe that you are in serious trouble!

You must be the one led to "believe that he had doubts as to what Jesus Christ knew about HIS rejection and therefore raises questions as to whether he believed that Jesus Christ was fully GOD!!" Because the article conveys a lot different idea

 

[OldRegular]

You must be the one led to "believe that he had doubts as to what Jesus Christ knew about HIS rejection and therefore raises questions as to whether he believed that Jesus Christ was fully GOD!!" Because the article conveys a lot different idea

I have said on numerous occasions that you need lessons in reading comprehension. Anyone reading without using the lens of the Darby/Scofield false doctrine can understand that the wording of Walvoord implies that Jesus Christ was not aware of the implications of the rejection of HIS message by the Jews.

John F. Walvoord was one of the leading scholars of pre-trig-dispensational doctrine. He served as professor of systematic theology and president of the Dallas Theological Seminary from 1952 to 1986. Following are some remarks by Walvoord on the offer of the Kingdom and its rejection taken from his book Major Bible Prophecies, pages 206ff.! I have taken the liberty of highlighting certain parts.

After Jesus was rebuked by the Pharisees because the disciples' ate grain gathered on the Sabbath, Jesus deliberately healed others on the Sabbath, but he warned the people of Israel that the prophecy of Isaiah 42:1-4 concerning their hardness of heart and incapacity to receive the truth was being fulfilled. This was followed by the Pharisees' blaspheming the Holy Spirit by saying that Jesus' miracles were of Satan. Jesus declared that this was the unpardonable sin. His concluding word was that the sign of the prophet Jonah was to be fulfilled by Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection (Matthew 12:38-41).

With this background of rejection, Jesus recognized that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming. This is the theme of Matthew 13.

There has been much resistance to the idea that the kingdom was postponed. It must be understood that what is postponed from a human standpoint is not postponed from the divine standpoint. With God all contingencies and seeming changes of direction are known from eternity past, and there is no change in God’s central purpose.

Jesus had been offering the kingdom in the form of offering himself as the Messiah and King of Israel. This offering had been rejected as God had anticipated, and ultimately this rejection would lead to the cross of Christ, which was part of God’s plan for the redemption of the world. On the divine side this was no change of plan, but on the human side it was a change of direction regarding fulfillment of the kingdom promise. A comparison can be in the experience of Israel at Kadesh-Barnea when the children of Israel were contemplating entering the Promised Land. When the spies reported that there were giants in the land, and ten of the twelve said the land could not be conquered, the unbelief of Israel resulted in Israel’s wandering in the wilderness for forty years {Numbers 13:26-14:25} From a divine standpoint this was anticipated in the plan of God but from a human standpoint it was a postponement of the promise of the possession of the land.

In a similar way the Israelites’ widespread unbelief at this point in the life of Christ changed his message from one of offering the kingdom to one of contemplating what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him. In keeping with this Matthew 13 reveals the character of the present age between the first and second comings of Christ. This is done by revealing aspects of the mystery of the kingdom.

There are two statements in Walvoord's remarks that are troubling:

1. With this background of rejection, Jesus recognized that the kingdom He was offering would not be fulfilled soon but would come about at his second coming.

2. In a similar way the Israelites’ widespread unbelief at this point in the life of Christ changed his message from one of offering the kingdom to one of contemplating what would result in view of Israel’s rejection of him.

It seems that in both of these statements Walvoord is implying that the rejection of the supposed offer of the kingdom comes as a surprise to Jesus Christ. If that is what he means he is questioning the deity of Jesus Christ!

Furthermore, there is no Scripture in the New Testament where any offer of a Messianic Kingdom is made to the Jews. If you dispensationalists would study Scripture instead of dumping on those who do you would be familiar with the following Scripture.

John 6:14, 15
14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

 

[revmwc]

I have said on numerous occasions that you need lessons in reading comprehension. Anyone reading without using the lens of the Darby/Scofield false doctrine can understand that the wording of Walvoord implies that Jesus Christ was not aware of the implications of the rejection of HIS message by the Jews.



Furthermore, there is no Scripture in the New Testament where any offer of a Messianic Kingdom is made to the Jews. If you dispensationalists would study Scripture instead of dumping on those who do you would be familiar with the following Scripture.

John 6:14, 15
14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."

We see the King cometh as a conqueror, Matthew 21:4-9,
4 "All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest."

Jesus came presenting Himself as the King, lowly riding upon the colt a foal of donkey. This offering the Kingdom to Israel at that point and guess what. A "very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees" they that is "the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest!"

They recognized Him as King and a few days later the leaders of Israel had Him crucified. Thus the Kingdom was offered. So you need to read the Bible a little more because right here is "Scripture in the O.T. and New Testament where an offer of a Messianic Kingdom wass made to the Jews.

 

[revmwc]

I have said on numerous occasions that you need lessons in reading comprehension. Anyone reading without using the lens of the Darby/Scofield false doctrine can understand that the wording of Walvoord implies that Jesus Christ was not aware of the implications of the rejection of HIS message by the Jews.



Furthermore, there is no Scripture in the New Testament where any offer of a Messianic Kingdom is made to the Jews. If you dispensationalists would study Scripture instead of dumping on those who do you would be familiar with the following Scripture.

John 6:14, 15
14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning. An individual's ability to comprehend text is influenced by their traits and skills, one of which is the ability to make inferences. If word recognition is difficult, students use too much of their processing capacity to read individual words, which interferes with their ability to comprehend what is read. There are a number of approaches to improve reading comprehension, including improving one's vocabulary and reading strategies.

Reading comprehension involves two levels of processing, shallow (low-level) processing and deep (high-level) processing. Deep processing involves semantic processing, which happens when we encode the meaning of a word and relate it to similar words. Shallow processing involves structural and phonemic recognition, the processing of sentence and word structure and their associated sounds.

Reading comprehension is defined as the level of understanding of a text/message. This understanding comes from the interaction between the words that are written and how they trigger knowledge outside the text/message.[1][2] Comprehension is a "creative, multifaceted process" dependent upon four language skills: phonology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics.[3] Proficient reading depends on the ability to recognize words quickly and effortlessly.[4] It is also determined by an individual's cognitive development, which is "the construction of thought processes". Some people learn through education or instruction and others through direct experiences.[5]

There are specific traits that determine how successfully an individual will comprehend text, including prior knowledge about the subject, well developed language, and the ability to make inferences. Having the skill to monitor comprehension is a factor: "Why is this important?" and "Do I need to read the entire text?" are examples. Lastly, is the ability to be self-correcting to solve comprehension problems as they arise

In this last part of reading comprehension you fail at reading comprehension, you fail to see that you "need to read the entire text" to comprehend what they text says.

 

[OldRegular]

Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."

We see the King cometh as a conqueror, Matthew 21:4-9,
4 "All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest."

Jesus came presenting Himself as the King, lowly riding upon the colt a foal of donkey. This offering the Kingdom to Israel at that point and guess what. A "very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees" they that is "the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest!"

They recognized Him as King and a few days later the leaders of Israel had Him crucified. Thus the Kingdom was offered. So you need to read the Bible a little more because right here is "Scripture in the O.T. and New Testament where an offer of a Messianic Kingdom wass made to the Jews.

According to dispensational doctrine the kingdom was offered and rejected prior to Matthew 13. The fact that Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah has nothing to do with the offering of the Kingdom. One more time:

Furthermore, there is no Scripture in the New Testament where any offer of a Messianic Kingdom is made to the Jews. If you dispensationalists would study Scripture instead of dumping on those who do you would be familiar with the following Scripture.

John 6:14, 15
14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

 

[OldRegular]

Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning. An individual's ability to comprehend text is influenced by their traits and skills, one of which is the ability to make inferences. If word recognition is difficult, students use too much of their processing capacity to read individual words, which interferes with their ability to comprehend what is read. There are a number of approaches to improve reading comprehension, including improving one's vocabulary and reading strategies.

Reading comprehension involves two levels of processing, shallow (low-level) processing and deep (high-level) processing. Deep processing involves semantic processing, which happens when we encode the meaning of a word and relate it to similar words. Shallow processing involves structural and phonemic recognition, the processing of sentence and word structure and their associated sounds.

Reading comprehension is defined as the level of understanding of a text/message. This understanding comes from the interaction between the words that are written and how they trigger knowledge outside the text/message.[1][2] Comprehension is a "creative, multifaceted process" dependent upon four language skills: phonology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics.[3] Proficient reading depends on the ability to recognize words quickly and effortlessly.[4] It is also determined by an individual's cognitive development, which is "the construction of thought processes". Some people learn through education or instruction and others through direct experiences.[5]

There are specific traits that determine how successfully an individual will comprehend text, including prior knowledge about the subject, well developed language, and the ability to make inferences. Having the skill to monitor comprehension is a factor: "Why is this important?" and "Do I need to read the entire text?" are examples. Lastly, is the ability to be self-correcting to solve comprehension problems as they arise

In this last part of reading comprehension you fail at reading comprehension, you fail to see that you "need to read the entire text" to comprehend what they text says.

Anyone who can understand Scripture would never find a pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church in Scripture. To do so they must ignore Scripture:

Certainly as did Darby they would never find another dispensation in Isaiah 32; but of course he claimed special revelation!

Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And then there is the prayer of Jesus Christ for HIS Church prior to HIS murder by the Jews. Not one word about sneaking them out of the world in secret!

John 17:11-23
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Then finally Jesus Christ tells HIS Church what they can expect from the world.

John 15:18-25
18. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Nowhere does Jesus Christ teach HE is going to sneak HIS Church out in secret! It will not happen.

 

[revmwc]

According to dispensational doctrine the kingdom was offered and rejected prior to Matthew 13. The fact that Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah has nothing to do with the offering of the Kingdom. One more time:

Originally Posted by OldRegular View Post
Furthermore, there is no Scripture in the New Testament where any offer of a Messianic Kingdom is made to the Jews. If you dispensationalists would study Scripture instead of dumping on those who do you would be familiar with the following Scripture.

John 6:14, 15
14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Why did He refuse to be made King because it was not time for His Kingdom and He in His Deity knew it!

We also see t his:

Matthew 4:16-17,

23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them."

Matthew 9:35-36,

35 "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."

Mark 1:14-15

14 "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Sounds like the Kingdom was being offered by Jesus.

John 6:14, 15
14. "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone."

They recognized Him as the Messiah to come but Jesus knew it was not time for Him to become the King seated on David's Throne so He departed. The Kingdom was at hand yet Jesus knew that they would reject the Offer and that is what Walvoord said if you read the entire text.

Yet the Kingdom will come and Revelation 20 says it will last 1000 years.

 

[revmwc]

Anyone who can understand Scripture would never find a pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church in Scripture. To do so they must ignore Scripture:

Certainly as did Darby they would never find another dispensation in Isaiah 32; but of course he claimed special revelation!

Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And then there is the prayer of Jesus Christ for HIS Church prior to HIS murder by the Jews. Not one word about sneaking them out of the world in secret!

John 17:11-23
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Then finally Jesus Christ tells HIS Church what they can expect from the world.

John 15:18-25
18. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
23. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Nowhere does Jesus Christ teach HE is going to sneak HIS Church out in secret! It will not happen.

Matthew 16:18, "...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
What was the Rock, Peter or His faith?

1st Corinthians 3:10-11,

10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Paul says it faith in Christ, the gates of hell cannot prevail on our Faith in Christ.

John 17:11-23, Jesus prayer was for us of this present age why would He say anything about removing us in fact He ask that we be not removed at that time but to continue in order that we could win souls. The souls of those whom were foreknown.


John 15:18-25, Jesus let us know that in this present time we will be persecuted and that is still happening today. It will happen even more so in the Great Tribulation to those saved when He who letteth is removed.

John 16:33, Again He was giving believers a great promise He will keep us in this period and see us through the tribulations of life.

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Jesus promised the church, the whole church even that they would be kept from the time of trial "which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth"

That time of trial has not come. But the church will be kept from it. Greek horas meaning time, Peirasmou meaning trial, those who kept the word (LOGON) used in several passages by Jesus, with hypomones-Patience that is our salvation.

The believer will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire World, that is the believers in this present dispensation or covenant of grace, will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire world. Jesus words not man's!

 

[DHK]

The paraphrase of Daniel 9:27 is as I said straight out of the pit of hell or the mind of Satan.

It is certain that the CEV paraphrase of Daniel 9:27 is inspired by someone other than GOD!

You are wrong but you are entitled to believe what you will.

It is a paraphrase and that is all. It is in line with all the other translations.
The trouble with your "commentaries" is that they are reading into the text those things that are not there. They are actually comparing Christ to the Antichrist. How can that be?

In the Goodspeed Bible of 1923, Alex R. Gordon translated the book of Daniel.
He translates vs. 27 this way:
"Then for one week the covenant shall be abandoned by many,
And for half of the week sacrifice and offering shall cease,
While in their place there shall be a desolating abomination,
Till at the end the doom that is determined shall be poured out upon the desolating thing."

In 1903 Ferrar Fenton came out with a translation, a translation which he began in 1853. It took him 50 years. He translates verse 27 this way:
"After that, the City, and the Sanctuary will be desolated by a Dominating People who are brought on,--But its end will be with a torrent, and its abolition by war. The desolations are fixed. But Covenant will be guarded by many for a week, and in the middle of the week, He will make the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and the Loathsome Brute will desolate to the extreme:--but at last a wound will be given to the Desolators." (26b,27)
--Here "he" is referred to a "Loathsome Brute," and that is back in 1903."

A good book to read (actually booklet) is by Dr. Alva J. McClain called "Daniel's Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks."
It was originally printed in 1940.
McClain, Th. M., D.D., L.L. D. was the President of the Grace College and Theological Seminary for 25 years. The book is a scholarly treatment of the passage.

Dan 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate. (ASV)

After 483 years (after the 69th week) Christ would die. He would be "cut off."
Then (some time after--it doesn't say when), the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city.
The Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The 69 weeks came to an end no later than 33 A.D. Now if even as much as one year is possible between 33 and the 70th week a gap must be admitted. But here we have a gap of 37 years. Thus those that believe this prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem believe in "a gap interpretation" of this passage. If there is a gap of 37 years there is no reason for not believing there may be a gap of 2,000 years.

What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Where in history did any of these take place?
Even spiritualizing or allegorizing the passage there was never an ending to Jewish transgressions or sins. On the contrary their sins and transgressions have only increased.

Unseen gaps are common in prophetic time.
Isa 9:6
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
--A child was born 2,000 years ago.
But the government will not be upon his shoulder until the Messianic Kingdom is come. He will not rule until His Millennial Kingdom is set up.

The same kind of gap is found in Zech.9:9,10:
His entrance into Jerusalem is prophesied first.
Then his dominion "from sea to sea," is next which has not happened yet.

Thus the 70th week is also future.
It speaks of the Antichrist who is to come.

 

[OldRegular]

Matthew 16:18, "...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
What was the Rock, Peter or His faith?

1st Corinthians 3:10-11,

10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Paul says it faith in Christ, the gates of hell cannot prevail on our Faith in Christ.

So you are denying the Words of Jesus Christ. HE said: Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Gates of hell would not prevail against HIS Church. You try to spin Scripture like a democrat tries to spin the truth!

It seems there is no limit to which you pre-tribbers will go to defend the false doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby!

John 17:11-23, Jesus prayer was for us of this present age why would He say anything about removing us in fact He ask that we be not removed at that time but to continue in order that we could win souls. The souls of those whom were foreknown.


John 15:18-25, Jesus let us know that in this present time we will be persecuted and that is still happening today. It will happen even more so in the Great Tribulation to those saved when He who letteth is removed.

John 16:33, Again He was giving believers a great promise He will keep us in this period and see us through the tribulations of life.

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Jesus promised the church, the whole church even that they would be kept from the time of trial "which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth"

That time of trial has not come. But the church will be kept from it. Greek horas meaning time, Peirasmou meaning trial, those who kept the word (LOGON) used in several passages by Jesus, with hypomones-Patience that is our salvation.

The believer will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire World, that is the believers in this present dispensation or covenant of grace, will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire world. Jesus words not man's!

You can shuffle your feet, obfuscate, stammer, whatever but you cannot defend the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church. Your entire doctrine is based on the false premise that the Church of Jesus Christ, which he hath purchased with his own blood, is an interruption in GOD's program for national/ethnic Israel. You totally ignore the fact that GOD had a people before Israel and HE has a people now. You totally ignore the fact that the Apostle Paul tells us:

Romans 9:6-8
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And then Paul tells us:

Galatians 3:16, 26-29
16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

All the promises to Abraham and his seed are inherited and fulfilled in the Church!

 

[revmwc]

So you are denying the Words of Jesus Christ. HE said: Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Gates of hell would not prevail against HIS Church. You try to spin Scripture like a democrat tries to spin the truth!

Matthew 16:18, "...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

What was the Rock, Peter or His faith?

Therefore by Grace through Faith we are saved, that is what makes up the church, those who have Faith, the gates of Hell will not prevail against those who place their faith in Christ, from Adam and Eve to all believers of today and future believers. Christ Blood paid for ALL sin, past, present and future. All who trust in Christ the gates of Hell will not prevail.

The church in and of itself constitutes all of this age who place their faith in Christ the foundation of the church is Jesus Christ and our Faith in Him. Because my Faith is not in Peter but upon Christ and Christ built His church upon Peter's faith.

 

[revmwc]

Originally Posted by revmwc View Post
John 17:11-23, Jesus prayer was for us of this present age why would He say anything about removing us in fact He ask that we be not removed at that time but to continue in order that we could win souls. The souls of those whom were foreknown.


John 15:18-25, Jesus let us know that in this present time we will be persecuted and that is still happening today. It will happen even more so in the Great Tribulation to those saved when He who letteth is removed.

John 16:33, Again He was giving believers a great promise He will keep us in this period and see us through the tribulations of life.

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Jesus promised the church, the whole church even that they would be kept from the time of trial "which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth"

That time of trial has not come. But the church will be kept from it. Greek horas meaning time, Peirasmou meaning trial, those who kept the word (LOGON) used in several passages by Jesus, with hypomones-Patience that is our salvation.

The believer will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire World, that is the believers in this present dispensation or covenant of grace, will be kept from the time of trial which is coming upon the whole entire world. Jesus words not man's!

You can shuffle your feet, obfuscate, stammer, whatever but you cannot defend the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church. Your entire doctrine is based on the false premise that the Church of Jesus Christ, which he hath purchased with his own blood, is an interruption in GOD's program for national/ethnic Israel. You totally ignore the fact that GOD had a people before Israel and HE has a people now. You totally ignore the fact that the Apostle Paul tells us:

No foot shuffling here you just seem to interpret those scriptures in your way. I see Christ asking for the Father to help those of His Church, in this age. Through those passages.

Show where I said any of this:

"Your entire doctrine is based on the false premise that the Church of Jesus Christ, which he hath purchased with his own blood, is an interruption in GOD's program for national/ethnic Israel. You totally ignore the fact that GOD had a people before Israel and HE has a people now. "



Now it is time for you to stop your false accusations about me and prove where I said what you say.

 

[OldRegular]

Matthew 16:18, "...upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The question is, what does Jesus Christ say the gates of hell shall not prevail against. The answer is HIS Church!