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Featured God knows us before We are Born Therefore He Predestines By that Forknowledge

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Jan 19, 2016.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you were saved because you have a good heart and your neighbor stayed lost because he has a bad heart?

    Wait a minute. Both of you have the SAME heart!

    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and it is exceedingly corrupt. Who can know it?

    Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

    Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    Yet you claim to have a good heart and be better than your neighbor. And because you have such a good heart you merit salvation!
     
    #81 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    He regenerated me and gave me a heart of faith. And again this is about the 5th time I have answered the same question but you keep going around in circles instead of discussing the issue.
     
    #82 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    No I am saved because I called upon Christ for Salvation, Believing that Christ came and died for my sin and that I was a sinner who needed a savior and He was the Savior. My heart changed when the Holy Spirit came and indwelt and filled me. I still sin as all believers do but I confess that sin and keep going for god.
     
    #83 revmwc, Jan 20, 2016
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you, while you were lost, had faith (believed in Christ) and came to Him even though you still were lost, unable to come to Him, and were still His enemy?
    Was that before or after you found faith somewhere?
    Including the sin of denying what God says about you, about the lost, and about your being without saving merit?
     
    #84 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    It has always been clear to me. All who Believe and Call upon Christ will be saved that is the Gospel. All who come in Faith are saved. I just believe God knew beforehand the moment it would occur.
     
    #85 revmwc, Jan 20, 2016
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    And who is it that will believe and call upon Christ? Those who are without faith, lost, in the world, and at enmity with God or those whom God has regenerated, given faith, accepted in the Beloved?
     
    #86 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Galatinas 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    Seems the promise comes to those who believe first by Faith. The promise of salvation by Faith comes when one Believes, Faith to believe brings the Promise of that Faith.

    Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Justification comes after Faith.

    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    We come to Christ by Faith.

    And of Couirse Faith comes by hearing Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    I heard the Gospel preached and Believed it and Called upon Christ in Faith.
     
    #87 revmwc, Jan 20, 2016
  8. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Those whom God are lost and without Christ as their savior. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
     
    #88 revmwc, Jan 20, 2016
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Are you saying that the lost can have faith even though the bible says that is impossible? Are you denying "there is none righteous no not one?" Are you denying the the bible fact that the lost are at enmity with God? And are you denying that the lost don't understand the gospel because it required spiritual discernment, and not only don't they understand it, they can't understand it?
     
    #89 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    And was this faith yours, or was it, as the bible says the "faith of Jesus Christ." In other words the faith belonging, not to you, but to Jesus?
     
    #90 TCassidy, Jan 20, 2016
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Why do they reject Him? They hate Him and His Light and want nothing to do with that Light. You stated God gives them every opportunity to be saved? How about those who never heard the gospel and never knew of Christ's existence?


    You have God as the woman from the show 'Romper Room' looking through her loop calling kids names by saying "I see Billy, and Johnny, and Mary, and Sharon, and Linda, and Roy..." and the whole time we'd be piled up into front of the TV screaming "me, me, me!!" I was a kid in the 1970's so I remember this show.

    God knows beforehand(foreknowledge/predestine/foreordain) who will be saved because He chose them from before the creation of the world. Now, those who accepted Christ, why did they? Was their persception better? Was their hearing keener? Was their heart not as hard? Surely there has to be a reason why they accepted and others rejected Him. I ask, not to be snarky, but to prove my(our) point. Here's why ppl love and accept God.

    "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.[1 John 4]

    Those that love God, have been born of God, born of love. That is why they accept Him. He chose to set His love upon them eons ago...before the creation of the world.
     
    #91 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
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  12. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    You continue your pretense that conflates error with truth. We are all aware of God's omniscience, but what you're attempting is to tie your error of His saving due to choice to omniscience and make it part of the doctrine.

    You're yet in error brother. I would ask you to show Scriptures that prove God chooses to give out rewards to those whom He knew would believe but you cannot because it is not there. The fact is God caused some to believe by gifting of faith. He chose man, not the other way around.
     
    #92 Internet Theologian, Jan 20, 2016
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  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    This 'that faith' you speak of is not of man but God. That is why in His foreknowledge He knows who will be saved.
     
    #93 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    We are born lost, mwc. If not for the cross of Christ, none would be saved. Christ came to give His life a ransom for many; for His sheep, iow, those God in His perefect foreknowledge, He would save.
     
    #94 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
  15. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    mwc, you said: 'He would know who would have Faith and who would not'.

    What does this statement of yours mean?

    Does it mean some men have faith, some do not?

    Explain your sentence why some have Faith and some do not.

    Where did this Faith come from? Why do some have it, and some not have it according to you?
     
    #95 Internet Theologian, Jan 20, 2016
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  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely. Bro. KYR said this, and it's a dandy...

    "I foreknew what would grow in my garden because I planted them."

    And the he used this verse...

    “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots."[Matt. 15:13]
     
    #96 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
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  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely. He is the Pioneer and Perfector of our faith.[Heb. 11:2]
     
    #97 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Every lost person who comes to faith in Christ has been gifted faith in regeneration of their soul. Those who remain in their sinful state until death never had faith.
     
    #98 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Okay mon ami, maybe we can make some headway here. Why do some resist and some don't? You'll readily say the hardness of their heart. Now was their heart so hard that God could not remove that stony heart? You have man, sinner man, in a position where God can do nothing until said sinner allows Him to do so. You say it is because of their sin-hardened heart they won't come. Yet, only God can do an heart exchange, stony for fleshly. Unless God exchanges these hearts, sinners won't come. However, when He does exchange them, watch how faith and repentance follow.

    All are under damnation/condemnation unless God wroughts His work upon their hearts. All.
     
    #99 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
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  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    You were saved because...

    1) God chose His elect before the foundation of the world...[Eph. 1]
    2) Christ died for His sheep...[John 10]
    3) Christ was the Sinbearer of His people...[2 Cor. 5]
    4) Christ prayed for His sheep...[John 17]
    5) God is the Pioneer and Perfector of His sheep's faith...[Heb. 12]

    And I could keep on going here...
     
    #100 SovereignGrace, Jan 20, 2016
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