Featured About Hebrews' warning: Do not draw back to perdition

To answer your second posts questions, no we who are truly born of God, regenerate by the Holy Spirit, cannot "undo" what God Himself has created, any more than you can undo the creation of the sun, moon, or stars.

Since the audience of this letter is primarily Jews, it makes perfect sense that God speaks to His people in this fashion. All the while in this letter the author has been exhorting and teaching that Jesus has come and brought in the new covenant, and how the new is better. Jesus is better than Moses, et. Now we are told that if, after we have received the knowledge of the truth, but go on sinning afterwards, there is no other sacrifice for sins. It is in Jesus and Him alone is the atonement. The law of Moses is of no help and the old covenant sacrifices can never take away sins.

It seems perfectly good to me that the Holy Spirit here encourages the Jewish believer to continue in the things that he has received.

 

"If you could lose your salvation, you would." John MacArthur

 

If all we had was that passage one might understand why some would toss eternal salvation out the window, and cling to some silly notion that a work of ours, like 'not drawing back' keeps us saved.

Since we know already that God's gifts are without repentance and that eternal life is His gift, it should be understood that who or whatever is drawing back did not lose eternal life.

 

No thanks. Jesus offered eternal life, not semi eternal life that lasted 4 years and 2 months, and depended on our works. We no more keep ourselves saved than we save ourselves in the first place.

Says you. However, that doesn't mean a thing. In one instance Jesus pointed out that believing was the work of God we needed to do.

So Peter who denied Christ is in hell? God forgot your little rules before saving Paul? The folks Paul mentioned that had to have their body be given to Satan to die, so that their soul would live were the epitome of obedience? When Jesus said no man would be abole to pluck us from the Father's hand, He really meant except the man who somehow was not as righteous as you like? Thomas showed what 'faith belief' was all about? Don't put the cart before the horse, any righteousness we practice is after the fact of salvation which is the gift of God.

Been there done that, traded the rag tee shirt for a glorious forgiven tee shirt from Jesus.

As clever as you may think you are, the delusional interpreting of some scriptures and ignoring others on God's gift and plan of salvation is straining at nats and swallowing camels.

 

That is an excellent quote. However I have heard a lot of his stuff (I like a lot of the prophesy stuff) and noticed that his teaching seems to be that those who really mess up simply were never saved to begin with, rather than lose salvation. That is just another way to deny that we actually really get saved when we truly ask, and will never lose it.

 

No. Never ever. Whatever the warning was about must be in that context. By the way, does perdition always mean eternal damnation?

 

And yet we see 1 Corinthians 3:
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Believers receive two types of rewards. Those for works of intrinsic value and those accomplished while drawn back into sin. Many will be drawn back into sin and receive wood, hay and straw, yet if their reward is consumed in the fire they will be saved yet so as through the fire.

 

No it is very clear what is being stated. Those who build upon the foundation, so who builds upon this foundation?
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The Foundation is Christ and only those who have believed can build upon Christ. For He is the Savior and only those who are His can build upon Him.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Then the believer builds upon the foundation, if it was referring unbelievers then they have the wrong foundation, their foundation is the world and that foundation leads to destruction. Now if it were the unbeliever how can they build with Gold Silver and Precious stone?
They can't those are the rewards of intrinsic value for those who believe. The believer building upon their faith and because of Faithful service they receive the crowns Paul and others talk about that are reserved for Believers.
Now notice:
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
The believers who works of intrinsic value abide in other words pass the test of trial by fire receive those rewards.
But:
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The believers whose works were accomplished in the flesh or who had drawn back into sin, will receive a reward but it will be consumed, and yet they will be saved yet so as through the fire. It can speak to no one but believers.

 

Great, so how does that work in your mind when some Calvinist accuses someone who 'departed' from their church or something of 'never being saved'? Do they come back in a year and then they were considered to have been saved after all? Yo yo religion. By the way, I'll let the insults slide this time. Strike one.

 

You have no clue what yo're even talking about.

1) John MacArthur does not and has never espoused that one can lose salvation.

2) He has never held to your false doctrine.

3) He has never, and has had no reason to recant his work contained in The Gospel According to Jesus.

You need to stop bearing false witness and note Exodus 20:16

 

Do you believe that once a person 'asks' to be saved that they can then deny all the gospel truths, Christ, and His teachings, and are still 'heaven bound'?