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If England won?

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Salty, Jul 4, 2016.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Suppose England had won the war of Rebellion of 1776 - how would that have changed history - esp War of 1812, 1861, WWI and WWII???
     
    #1 Salty, Jul 4, 2016
  2. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Rebellion would have been tried again the next generation, and the next, until independence had been achieved.
     
    #2 Rob_BW, Jul 4, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Well Salty Old Chap!... I believe that you would be speaking British... Governor... Pip pip... Tally Ho... And Cherrio... Brother Glen
     
    #3 tyndale1946, Jul 4, 2016
  4. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Just for that, I'm going to go make some tea.

    Who wants to drive to the harbor?

    :D:D:D
     
    #4 Rob_BW, Jul 4, 2016
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Talk about change and their is always some Animal that wants to start a R-E-B-E-L-L-I-O-N... Just for that I'm telling the King!... He always likes a spot of tea... Cheerio!... See you at the harbor!... Brother Glen
     
    #5 tyndale1946, Jul 4, 2016
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  6. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    But seriously, I think immigration and population growth pretty much demanded American independence. Just look at the populations of Canada and Australia, and then the UK.
     
    #6 Rob_BW, Jul 4, 2016
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    In all seriousness the time was right... Those escaped England due to religious persecution... Check history of all those times mentioned was divine intervention at work?... If it wasn't we would still be England... If we lost WWII we would either be speaking Japanese or German... This is still Gods world and he is still in control although some say he is not... If the sun rises and sets he is still in control... He is constantly in the affairs of men... Check your Bible it didn't come by coincidence... When Israel forgot about God they visited Egypt for a while... Forgot him again they took a trip to Babylon... And who can forget Rome... This country has forgotten God and not as God fearing as it once was... So what's around the corner?... Don't know?... Brother Glen
     
    #7 tyndale1946, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    H. Clinton getting elected POTUS (GOD FORBID)!!!!!
     
    #8 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 5, 2016
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    There is a lot to that; the British knew they had a problem with the fast-growing colonies, so much so that they prohibited settlement beyond the Alleghenies (one of the lesser-known grievances that led to independence). The Brits probably could have held off independence (for a while, at least) if they'd done to America what they did for Canada and Australia: make it a largely self-governing member of a commonwealth.

    But there is another factor: Many Americans had the figurative blood of the Republicans in their veins. (This is especially true of the Yankees, largely descended from the Republicans who toppled a dynasty but saw many of their gains swept away with the Restoration; many New Englanders, in fact, returned to England to fight against the Stuarts.) In many ways, the American Revolution was the sequel to the English Civil War, the correct ending, as they saw it.

    John Adams, when visiting the battlefield of the English Civil War, said: "And do Englishmen so soon forget the ground where liberty was fought for? Tell your neighbors and your children that this is holy ground,…All England should come in pilgrimage to this hill once a year."

    Americans were well aware of the ideological connections to the English Civil War, and they were especially concerned that, while they wanted the liberties they thought they had been denied by the Restoration, they were equally concerned that Washington not become another Lord Protector, usurping the people's authority by military means. Washington himself was careful to always cast himself as an anti-Cromwell in that respect.
     
    #9 rsr, Jul 5, 2016
  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    This is an interesting tidbit I found on how they grew those colonies and am now reading in a book called White Cargo... The Forgotten History of Britain's White Slaves in America... In the seventeenth and eighteenth more than 300,000 became slaves there in all but name... And I thought all along it was just the other race... FYI... Brother Glen
     
    #10 tyndale1946, Jul 6, 2016
  11. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Bro. Glen, I think you'll find indentured servitude (which as a common practice in early modern Europe and included even apprentices learning a craft) was something different from chattel slavery.
     
    #11 rsr, Jul 6, 2016
  12. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    London could have avoided armed hostilities if it had:
    • Not treated the American Colonies like Irish Catholics. Who were treated in the 18th and 19th centuries like American Indians in the 19th.
    • Figured out a way for the colonies to pay for the French and Indian War without the Westminster Parliament laying the taxes. If the taxes had been laid by the colonial legislatures, there would not have been as strong a backlash.
    • Allowed men like Washington to purchase commissions in the British Army. Maybe not in the posher regiments, there there was the 62nd\60th (the Royal American) Regiment. However, it was not formed as a regiment for American born Englishmen.
     
    #12 Squire Robertsson, Jul 6, 2016
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Not to mention:

    In the years prior to the American Revolution, the British, in response to the colonists' unhappiness over increasingly direct control and taxation of the colonies, imposed a gunpowder embargo on the colonies in an attempt to lessen the ability of the colonists to resist British encroachments into what the colonies regarded as local matters. Two direct attempts to disarm the colonial militias fanned what had been a smoldering resentment of British interference into the fires of war. (Reynolds, Bart, September 6, 2006. "Primary Documents Relating to the Seizure of Powder at Williamsburg, VA, April 21, 1775")

    We are, for the most part, a nation of rugged individualists. We are by nature a peaceful people. But push us hard enough and we will push back. We will push back hard.

    England pushed and we pushed back. Hard. 1776.

    England pushed and we pushed back. Hard. 1812.

    The Central Powers pushed and we pushed back. Hard. 1917.

    The Axis Powers pushed and we pushed back. Hard. 1941.

    As Japanese Marshal Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto is reported to have written in his diary, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
     
    #13 TCassidy, Jul 6, 2016
  14. Melanie

    Melanie Active Member
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    Hmmmmmmm, would it have required large British forces to be present? Weaker defences would have allowed incursions from native land holders in defence of their ancestral boundaries. French,Spanish interests to fossik about opening new land, finding resources. Internal subsets of people's wether held together by faith, culture or criminality to thrive
     
    #14 Melanie, Jul 9, 2016
  15. Melanie

    Melanie Active Member
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    I think the British Empire would have started loosening in time due to its sprawl. Historically, this tends to happen, the subjugated grab opportunities to defy the central government etc. etc. America was able to do so due to the fact that Britain was engaged against the Napoleonic ravaging . This period saw the "war tax" or income tax imposed which was never waived after the war, and umpteen other revenue raising and therefore UNPOPULAR taxes...hair powder tax, window taxes to name a few. As a lay person I find the social unrest of the time fascinating, the facet there was a mad King ( farmer George ) , an extravagant and callous upper class, dreadful outcomes for veteran soldiers ( beggary), press gangs for a truly awful existence in the navy, widowed families with no financial ease. This period saw the beginning of the enclosure of commons which had a profound and negative effect of ancient land rights of the common folk......no one gave a toss about native title back then!


    Colonials were expected to succour the mother country with no expectations of financial or otherwise benefits. No wonder the uppity colonials thought they would do better on their own. The British snobbery over the colonies must of stuck in every colonial son and daughters craw.i
     
    #15 Melanie, Jul 13, 2016
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    One matter to remember is with a Continental loss, there would have been no French Revolution, no FR no Napoleon and his wars.
     
    #16 Squire Robertsson, Jul 13, 2016
  17. Melanie

    Melanie Active Member
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    The French Revolution was a defining moment in history, Napoleon capitalised on that, and afterwards the national borders of Europe began to alter.. Good point Squire Robertson.
     
    #17 Melanie, Jul 13, 2016
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