Why It's Ridiculously Foolhardy for Christians to Support Donald Trump

[Zaac]

We liberal American Jews view that attachment as a reflection of our faith and values, not a repudiation of them. But white evangelicals seem to bypass faith values to support a thrice-married man who boasts about his sexual exploits, made a fortune from gambling, supported abortion rights and gay and lesbian rights not too long ago, struggles to quote a single verse from the Bible and clearly doesn’t believe in a judgmental God or the Golden Rule.

But it doesn’t matter! As Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church, in Dallas, and a Fox News personality, said at a forum in March: “I couldn’t care less about the president’s tone or his language… I want the meanest, toughest, son-of-a-you-know-what I can find in that role, and I think that’s where many evangelicals are. The leaders just don’t get it.”

Ah, but now I do. Here’s the corollary, though: If character and behavior don’t matter to you and your candidates, they shouldn’t matter in judging me, or people like me.

This year’s embrace of Trump robs white evangelicals of any justification for judging others’ behavior, for legislating against us, for preaching about family values and the necessity of maintaining religious tradition. If they want to be unabashedly pragmatic voters who don’t walk the walk, fine. But they’ve lost the moral high ground. I don’t know what their gospel looks like anymore.


Which is funny, because they have pilloried a leader who has conducted himself with great probity and grace, and who exudes family values without a touch of scandal. But the guy who’s been in the White House for the past seven years is also the wrong color, which may sadly hint at the real explanation for white evangelical support for Donald Trump.
http://forward.com/opinion/345668/s...y-the-trump-card-and-the-god-card-at-same-ti/

There will be no divorcing of our Christianity from this foolishness. And the world is watching and keeping notes. All the harping about abortion or anything else looks like a bunch of empty words because folks are choosing to support , once again, someone whose behavior and character are beyond inconsistent with that of Christ.

God have mercy.

 

[church mouse guy]

As Hillary has noted, about half of the Trump voters are deplorable.

 

[blessedwife318]

This election has been eye opening because it revealed the sad truth of how tied evangelicals are to the GOP. At this point what does the GOP have to stand for before evangelicals will leave them?
It's not porn.
It's not gambaling.
It's not praising planned parenthood.
It's not pandering to the LGBT community.
So where is the line, especially when you consider that those were all things that just 20 years ago evangelicals got worked up about.

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[Zaac]

This election has been eye opening because it revealed the sad truth of how tied evangelicals are to the GOP. At this point what does the GOP have to stand for before evangelicals will leave them?
It's not porn.
It's not gambaling.
It's not praising planned parenthood.
It's not pandering to the LGBT community.
So where is the line, especially when you consider that those were all things that just 20 years ago evangelicals got worked up about.

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blessedwife I just had a similar conversation with someone a couple of days ago and was telling them how this makes absolutely no sense the way that evangelicals have compromised and continue to just because their candidate of choice has an R after his name.

And I've just heard what the lady in the article said so many times during this general election cycle. Somebody on this board has said that politics shouldn't even come up during evangelism, but it does.

And I can't tell you the number of people who have asked me why Christians are supporting that man, and why they don't care what he does, but hates them because of what they do?

There are entire segments of the population who will, if they haven't already, turn a deaf ear to anything to do with the church after this and I can't say that I blame them.

Their blood will be on our hands because character and behavior SHOULD matter to followers of Christ. And if a person as a Christian can say that the things that DT has said and done do not matter as far as their supporting him, then it also shouldn't matter that folks get abortions, divorce and leave their families, live a gay lifestyle, marry someone of the same sex or anything else.

There used to be a time when we would say to the young kids who would ask us is it okay to live with someone before you're married that according to Scripture, we are not to give the appearance of evil. Now, when they see so many Christians supporting this thrice married and two-timed divorced man who doesn't believe he needs to ask God for forgiveness, I imagine them saying "But aren't these the same folks who said we aren't supposed to give the appearance of evil?"

Yes the blood of many shall be on our hands and God WILL hold us responsible.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

Doesn't matter what Trump or any other politician says: ppl hate God because they are the children of Adam. Period.

"I didn't turn to You in faith and repentence because Donald Trump" is not going to work on Judgment Day.

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[Jkdbuck76]

And no, I'm not crazy about Trump. He and Clinton as candidates = this is what we deserve.

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[Zaac]

Doesn't matter what Trump or any other politician says: ppl hate God because they are the children of Adam. Period.

"I didn't turn to You in faith and repentence because Donald Trump" is not going to work on Judgment Day.

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Nice try. But I didn't say anything about the lost not receiving the Gospel because of what Trump says our then heading God. The problem is the followers of Christ trying to point them to Christ while supporting a man who is as anti-Christ as they come. It's a stumbling block that Christians should not be placing in the way.

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[Zaac]

And no, I'm not crazy about Trump. He and Clinton as candidates = this is what we deserve.

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So if we know they are God's judgment for our disobedience, wouldn't it make GOD sense to not support either?

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[HankD]

It's a lost cause trying to overthrow DT by attempting to turn "evangelicals" against him.

First - it won't work, evangelicals love him.
No amount of guilt trips will dissuade them.
It's his persona and charisma.

Second, they are not the sector which will decide the election.

It is the anti-establishment Bernie orphans who at one time held up to 30% of the popular DNC vote.

Daddy made an impassioned plea to come home to Daddy and vote for Hillary - IT WON'T HAPPEN because the DNC betrayed them via "super-delegate" vote theft and the orphans feel very much BETRAYED

Who will they cast their ballot for?
Your guess is as good as mine but it for sure WON'T be Hillary.

If they (DNC) had nipped his candidacy in the bud Hillary would be on her way to the white house.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

It's a lost cause trying to overthrow DT by attempting to turn "evangelicals" against him.

First - it won't work, evangelicals love him.
No amount of guilt trips will dissuade them.
It's his persona and charisma.

Second, they are not the sector which will decide the election.

It is the anti-establishment Bernie orphans who at one time held up to 30% of the popular DNC vote.

Daddy made an impassioned plea to come home to Daddy and vote for Hillary - IT WON'T HAPPEN because the DNC betrayed them via "super-delegate" vote theft and the orphans feel very much BETRAYED

Who will they cast their ballot for?
Your guess is as good as mine but it for sure WON'T be Hillary.

If they (DNC) had nipped his candidacy in the bud Hillary would be on her way to the white house.

HankD

I'm not trying to turn evangelicals against him. I'm simply making the case that said evangelicals are for him and not for Him.

That's why I've said it's simple idolatry. Folks care more about winning an election and what they think it will do than they do about doing things God's way and trusting HIM to do what only HE can do.

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[Jkdbuck76]

It's a lost cause trying to overthrow DT by attempting to turn "evangelicals" against him.

First - it won't work, evangelicals love him.
No amount of guilt trips will dissuade them.
It's his persona and charisma.

Second, they are not the sector which will decide the election.

It is the anti-establishment Bernie orphans who at one time held up to 30% of the popular DNC vote.

Daddy made an impassioned plea to come home to Daddy and vote for Hillary - IT WON'T HAPPEN because the DNC betrayed them via "super-delegate" vote theft and the orphans feel very much BETRAYED

Who will they cast their ballot for?
Your guess is as good as mine but it for sure WON'T be Hillary.

If they (DNC) had nipped his candidacy in the bud Hillary would be on her way to the white house.

HankD

Bingo. There is a price to be paid for what they did.
This election is what we deserve. WE did this to ourselves.
We will have to soak in our own dirty dishwater.

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[Jkdbuck76]

Nice try. But I didn't say anything about the lost not receiving the Gospel because of what Trump says our then heading God. The problem is the followers of Christ trying to point them to Christ while supporting a man who is as anti-Christ as they come. It's a stumbling block that Christians should not be placing in the way.

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Zaac, I can read. I know exactly what you said. You said that the blood of those who leave the church for certain reasons you enumerated above would be on our hands. I'm saying "no it won't ". And I offered an explanation. I would go even further to say that we are blessed beyond measure because God sent His Son and He has spoken....so I don't get too worked up over all this.
In any case, have a good day.

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[Crabtownboy]

A Christian should NEVER vote for a candidate who believes in eugenics. Trump believes in eugenics.

 

[HankD]

I'm not trying to turn evangelicals against him. I'm simply making the case that said evangelicals are for him and not for Him.

That's why I've said it's simple idolatry. Folks care more about winning an election and what they think it will do than they do about doing things God's way and trusting HIM to do what only HE can do.

Like I said Zaac, it won't work and the BB is the wrong sector.

The correct sector - the Bernie orphans (upwards of 20-30% of the Dem voting potential) are far more dangerous to Hillary than we the evangelicals.

No doubt some were/are DNC loyalists and have thrown in with queen Hillary. But no one knows that stat.

Remember polling is done mainly on land-lines and when the spontaneous on-line polling is done the shriek of "unscientific" goes up (with an unmistakable element of fear).

No one knows the cell-phone only stand of millennials/anti-establishments and we have only only rough estimates of that blending of "undecided".

What does Hillary have to attract them? Bernie's endorsement (not good enough!),
What does DT have to offer them? MEAT for the carnivores! ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT t-bone steak!.

FWIW my advice to the liberal world (partially for free - such a deal!).
Here it is:

Though its probably too late they need desperately to go after AND GET Bernie's orphans or THEY WILL LOSE (IMO) with undeniably establishment- set in cement - Queen Hillary - The Queen of Pay-to-Play Establishment (Bernie proved it for them) .

It is still possible to win them over, but I'm not giving that away for free

HankD

 

[Zaac]

Like I said Zaac, it won't work and the BB is the wrong sector.

The correct sector - the Bernie orphans (upwards of 20-30% of the Dem voting potential) are far more dangerous to Hillary than we the evangelicals.

No doubt some were/are DNC loyalists and have thrown in with queen Hillary. But no one knows that stat.

Remember polling is done mainly on land-lines and when the spontaneous on-line polling is done the shriek of "unscientific" goes up (with an unmistakable element of fear).

No one knows the cell-phone only stand of millennials/anti-establishments and we have only only rough estimates of that blending of "undecided".

What does Hillary have to attract them? Bernie's endorsement (not good enough!),
What does DT have to offer them? MEAT for the carnivores! ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT t-bone steak!.

FWIW my advice to the liberal world (partially for free - such a deal!).
Here it is:

Though its probably too late they need desperately to go after AND GET Bernie's orphans or THEY WILL LOSE (IMO) with undeniably establishment- set in cement - Queen Hillary - The Queen of Pay-to-Play Establishment (Bernie proved it for them) .

It is still possible to win them over, but I'm not giving that away for free

HankD

Hank I don't particularly care what group is more of a danger to Hillary. What I care about is the disservice Christians do to the cause of Christ by supporting a man who lacks character and says he does not ask for forgiveness from God.

Bernie's orphans can go fly a kite.

BB is the right sector because there's plenty of professing Christians on here supporting that anti-Christ GOP candidate.

 

[HankD]

Hank I don't particularly care what group is more of a danger to Hillary. What I care about is the disservice Christians do to the cause of Christ by supporting a man who lacks character and says he does not ask for forgiveness from God.

Bernie's orphans can go fly a kite.

BB is the right sector because there's plenty of professing Christians on here supporting that anti-Christ GOP candidate.

Really Zaac?
Be careful brother,

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

Really Zaac?
Be careful brother,

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

HankD

Now Hank. I know you're seasoned enough to understand that to not be a prohibition on judging, but rather an explanation of HOW we are to judge in verses 2-5.

 

[HankD]

Now Hank. I know you're seasoned enough to understand that to not be a prohibition on judging, but rather an explanation of HOW we are to judge in verses 2-5.

Just saying Zaac, Trump is very unsavory to those who don't like him, Hillary - the same to those who don't like her.

To pass the anti-Christ judgment seems an overreach.
But if you mean by observing his actions then not only he but MANY others in our political machine (right and left) would no doubt qualify.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

Just saying Zaac, Trump is very unsavory to those who don't like him, Hillary - the same to those who don't like her.

To pass the anti-Christ judgment seems an overreach.

Why? What about him appears to be pro-Christ?

But if you mean by observing his actions then not only he but MANY others in our political machine (right and left) would no doubt qualify.

Absolutely agree. But he, DT, has specifically made clear that he does not ask God for forgiveness and his subsequent actions and lack of character in anything seems to confirm that he's exactly what he says he is.

My granddaddy always used to tell me that if someone tells you that they are a certain way, take their word for it until they show you otherwise.

HE has said who he is and has done NOTHING that leads me to believe otherwise.

He is a wicked, wicked man and does not deserve the support of any follower of Christ who is trying to bring people to faith in Christ.

 

[HankD]

Why? What about him appears to be pro-Christ?

Absolutely agree. But he, DT, has specifically made clear that he does not ask God for forgiveness and his subsequent actions and lack of character in anything seems to confirm that he's exactly what he says he is.

My granddaddy always used to tell me that if someone tells you that they are a certain way, take their word for it until they show you otherwise.

HE has said who he is and has done NOTHING that leads me to believe otherwise.

He is a wicked, wicked man and does not deserve the support of any follower of Christ who is trying to bring people to faith in Christ.

Well Zaac the biblical definition of determining an anti-Christ is not so much what they do but what they believe theologically speaking.

1. They deny the Trinitarian relationship of the Father and the Son
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2. They deny that Jesus (Logos-God) has come in the flesh, they deny His deity.
John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Personally, I don't believe we can pass a biblical judgement of "antichrist" by deeds alone but these denials must also be verbally confirmed by the individual.

From his own testimony his relationship with God is vague:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-wont-have-to-be-asking-for-much-forgiveness/

His exact words were : “I will be asking for forgiveness, but hopefully I won’t have to be asking for much forgiveness.” While this is not a good answer to Baptist persuasion folks it seems to suffice for "evangelicals" although there are some who are doubtful.

HankD