You are speaking of sanctification, not salvation.
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Calvin on "total depravity"
- Thread starter AndThisGospel
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Fantastic answer.
AndThisGospel
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And what does that mean?
AndThisGospel
Member
Oh, stop it please....God has chosen "all men" in Christ, but not all will respond. The fault is not with God, but rather a harden heart.
You don't know what sanctification is? That's odd.
You just don't see the utter fallacy in your statement. I can't open blind eyes.
Who ever blamed God for mans sinful wickedness? The blame for sin is entirely on man.
God is not obligated to save even one person, yet you claim God saved all humans and only the morons say no.
Your claim is so biblically incorrect that it just leaves me shaking my head. I am dumbfounded by the ludicrousness of your claim. You deny grace with your words and you are too blind to conceive of how you've accomplished such a feat of legalism. Shake my head.
AndThisGospel
Member
No, what does this mean? "our sanctification is worked out through trials ordained by God".
AndThisGospel
Member
Did you ask to be born a sinner? No! Who allowed that to happen, albeit for a greater purpose? Answer: God. Therefore He is responsible for all that chaos that has ensued. I didn't say that He is to blame for sin. Satan is to blame for sin, but God, in His sovereignty, allowed it. Therefore God has, out of his justice and love, assumed the blame until "the day of atonement" where Satan and his self-love will be unmasked for all to see. Then God places the actual blame on Satan.....
Sure, from the human perspective, but God is love and because He has allowed sin to come in to our world, He has taken the initiative by reversing our condemnation "in Adam" to "justification of life" in Christ.
AndThisGospel
Member
Again, for the blind among us:
Rom 5:18 NASB So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men.
AndThisGospel
Member
Christ has reversed the condemnation that Adam's sin brought on the entire human race. This act is finished. The work of atonement is a historical event that stands complete. Christ has saved the human race.
Now, what are Adam's offspring going to do about this fact? Will they reject the gospel, or will they accept it?
17 For if by the transgression of the one (Adam), death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Those who receive what God has already accomplished "in Christ" will reign in life. Those who reject the gospel will see death, the 2nd death. It's just that simple.
Wow!
You blame God and you say that God's atonement has not yet come.
Again, shake my head.
Funny how you ignore the bookends...
Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the
trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Romans 5:19
For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Kinda shoots down your universalism...don't ya think?
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"You truly don't grasp the amount of mercy and grace God extends do you."
Hitler shows more mercy then your idea of God.
Yeah your happy cause he shot the guy in the head next to you and let you live. Oh yeah he had "no reason" to let you live.....so merciful.
Thank God, I'm not that reprobate!
Nazis thought they were chosen ones too, And plenty folks were afraid and followed peer pressure while they settled for a leader who killed burned Jews.
It doesn't even hold a candle, to the flat out evil idea of God you have. Cause you think he is going to do it to them again, just to prove how "glorious" he is.
Luckily scripture has some checks and balances. #1 being the command of God which is to love God and neighbor.
1 Corinthians 13
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
So the idea God is evil just doesn't work.
Your interpretation of God is so evil I challenge you to show me something WORST!
AndThisGospel
Member
You, sir, are truly ignorant. I don't believe you would know truth if it hit you in the face. You are ridiculously.
AndThisGospel
Member
You apparently didn't read....Again, truly ignorant. Stick to you Calvinistic views then, because in the end blatant error will take you out of Christ. It's called apostasy.
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The 'carnal mind' (ie. sarx, 'flesh') is death. The essence of salvation is that the dead come to life (John 5:25; Ephesians 2:4-6).
that is exactly what it does mean! 'Knowing this, that our old man [our old self, our old nature] was crucified with Him' (Romans 6:6). 'I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live,' says Paul (Galatians 2:20). Paul himself wasn't crucified with Christ, but his old sinful nature was. 'But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness' (Romans 6:17-18). The Christian has died to sin. 'Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord' (Romans 6:11). This is not saying that we should imagine something that isn't true, but that we should understand our incredible status in Christ and the colossal change that comes with the New Birth, and live up to these facts.
I don't know if you have any pastoral responsibilities, but a sure way to leave Christians mired in sin is to tell them that they can't help sinning because they still have a sinful nature. No, no! We should tell our people the wonderful truth that they have died to sin, and that therefore they have no business sinning. We must also warn them that if they carry on sinning as they did before, that is a sign that they are not saved. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are adultery, fornication, uncleanness...........envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries and the like, of which I tell you.....that those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God' (Galatians 5:19-21).
"Yes, but I have this sinful nature you see, and......"
'Those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God'
"Yes, but AndthisGospel told me........"
'Those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God'
"Yes, but......."
'Those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God' 'Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires' (Galatians 5:24).
Both these points are true, but the fact is that now sin is an alien thing. The Holy Spirit dwells within us (in 'the inner man') and sin is something outside us- in our 'members.' Yes, the Christian stills sins at times, but we must not tolerate sin; we should treat it like God treated the Amalekites (Exodus 17:16). We must show our sins no mercy, even what the Puritans called our 'darling sins,' but, like Samuel, hack them down before the Lord (1 Samuel 15:33). Sins, like Amalekites, are stubborn things. We can attack them all day and night like David, and we still can't get rid of them completely (1 Samuel 30:17). But we press on; 'For sin shall not have dominion over you' (Romans 6:14). Not 'must not....'; not 'ought not.......' but 'shall not!' It's absolutely certain because Christians are new creatures in Christ Jesus.
My reading and comprehension is just fine.
AndThisGospel
Member
Then you intentionally misrepresented the context. In most circles that's called a lie.
Did Christ reverse our condemnation "in Adam" or not? Romans 5:18 states yes....There are other texts too....
Your narrative is so far from reality as to not warrant a rebuttal. Shake my head.
Continue to blame God if you must.
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