Baptist Brother
Active Member
Given that Pentacostals have such incredibly poor doctrine for Bible-believers, I'll take stiff any day over their emotionalism. Dispensational theology is one of those poor doctrines from emotionalism.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Partial Preterism – promotion, objections & relevance today.
- Thread starter Covenanter
- Start date
- Status
Given that Pentacostals have such incredibly poor doctrine for Bible-believers, I'll take stiff any day over their emotionalism. Dispensational theology is one of those poor doctrines from emotionalism.
Don't think likes of Macarthur/Scofoeield/Ryrie were that emotional, and they got their views from the Bible, same place you did!
I've had to walk out of charismatic/pentecostal churches because of the noise level - & I was joined outside by others.
Now how can I use this in the Preterism thread discussion?
Baptist Brother
Active Member
I think those men have a foundation of emotion, not the Bible, for a number of their doctrines.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
I'm not sure how to do that. But, standard Dispensational theology paints an exciting picture where all the Bible's eschatology is about us, right now, but that we're going to fly away before the worst, and we won't even have to die. It offers Zionism as an idol that we can see (in the news, etc.) and feel (visit), a place to direct our passion and worship other than God.
Preterism is mostly just boring history and that our time is nothing special.
To continue:
Continuing with Revelation.
John writes to the angels of the 7 churches. That must mean pastors/elders. The letters are specific for those churches but applicable to everyone reading them. My church & yours. Me & you. And the churches around us - the ones we don't go to.
Rev. 4 & 5 show the heavenly situation & the Kingship & God & his Son.
Notice that the Lion/Lamb prevailed - Nike. In 6:2, the white horse rider went forth conquering, and to conquer.... νικῶν καὶ ἵνα νικήσῃ. nike/nike.
What trainers do champions wear?
The victorious Jesus continues his triumph by the defeat of his enemies.
The scale of the other 3 horsemen's activities is consistent with judgement on the land of Israel, rather than the whole earth.
Compare:
A (partial) Preterist understanding is indicated. We are on the winning side. NIKE!!!
But we haven't finished with Rev. 6 yet.
In Scripture, clouds are often signs of God's presence, e.g. in the dedication of Tabernacle & Temple. The context is always relevant.
Continuing with Revelation.
John writes to the angels of the 7 churches. That must mean pastors/elders. The letters are specific for those churches but applicable to everyone reading them. My church & yours. Me & you. And the churches around us - the ones we don't go to.
Rev. 4 & 5 show the heavenly situation & the Kingship & God & his Son.
Rev. 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
......
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every tribe/kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Jesus has the victory, & he proceeds to show John the sealed scroll - a picture book of God's plans about to be realised.......
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every tribe/kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Notice that the Lion/Lamb prevailed - Nike. In 6:2, the white horse rider went forth conquering, and to conquer.... νικῶν καὶ ἵνα νικήσῃ. nike/nike.
What trainers do champions wear?
The victorious Jesus continues his triumph by the defeat of his enemies.
The scale of the other 3 horsemen's activities is consistent with judgement on the land of Israel, rather than the whole earth.
Compare:
Rev. 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
with: Eze. 14:21 For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
Ezekiel's warning vision does not stop with judgment.22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it. 23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord God.
which points to the 144,000 remnant who will be delivered. A (partial) Preterist understanding is indicated. We are on the winning side. NIKE!!!
But we haven't finished with Rev. 6 yet.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
Kyredneck is on the money. As for you, you don't support America's generosity to Israel for theological reasons, so you do for political reasons? How much much did your arm need to be twisted to convince of the political need to give Israel all that money?
What do you think the Palestinians should do? Tell me your ridiculous answer.
There's no Israel apart from belief. It's a big pile of steaming ridiculousness that literalism dictates Israel and the Church are separate. Very much the opposite.
You don't take it literally, you don't take it figuratively, you don't believe it at all when Paul says Christians are the seed of Abraham or when Jesus says unbelieving Jews are the children of Satan.
Dispensational theology is unChristian.
You've not been a member long enough to know anyone and you're certainly misrepresenting JoJ. Please stop.
Baptist Brother
Active Member
Let me refresh your memory, Martin. You said, "I might add that Church history seems to be unanimous that of the Apostles, only John survived as long as AD 70, so perhaps the Lord Jesus should have said, 'There is one standing here who will not see death till he sees the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.'"
I see you learned that John wasn't the only Apostle that survived past 70 AD. Isn't three (or more) Apostles living past 70 AD "some"?
You haven't explained why you're justified in limiting those "standing here" to just the Twelve Apostles, when Jesus traveled with a large number of followers. And, that some of those others would have lived past 70 AD.
You haven't explained why if Jesus should have said only John (or only three) would still be alive, if he meant 70 AD, why shouldn't Jesus have perhaps said "none standing here" will die, or better yet, "another week won't pass" if he meant something six days later?
Answer the first question before we move on to next question. Better yet, change to a doctrine where the questions can be answered.
Continuing with Rev. 6 & the 7 seals.
Jesus is in effect showing John a picture book of what will happen. He gave plenty of warnings to the Israelites while he was with them. The Apostles underline those warnings, from Moses & the the prophets.
The martyrs seen when seal 5 is opened are assured that judgment & vengeance of the persecutors would follow in a little season, indicating a few years rather than 2 or more millennia.
And the sixth seal is opened to reveal devastating judgment.
We can relate the effects in the heavens with the judgment of Babylon in Isaiah 13 - a judgment Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, recorded in Daniel 5.
Remember Jesus blighting the fig tree? And encouraging faith-prayer for the removal of this mountain? Which mountain can he mean but the temple mount they were standing on which would cease to be a focus of worship. (John 4)
And who did Jesus warn would desire the rocks to cover them?
These events take time to read, but are occurring concurrently. There are many believers still in the city, witnessing to the increasingly rebellious Jews, and watching for the signs Jesus gave them to know when to flee the city. That brings us to Rev.7, still within the 6 seals.
Jesus is in effect showing John a picture book of what will happen. He gave plenty of warnings to the Israelites while he was with them. The Apostles underline those warnings, from Moses & the the prophets.
The martyrs seen when seal 5 is opened are assured that judgment & vengeance of the persecutors would follow in a little season, indicating a few years rather than 2 or more millennia.
And the sixth seal is opened to reveal devastating judgment.
We can relate the effects in the heavens with the judgment of Babylon in Isaiah 13 - a judgment Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, recorded in Daniel 5.
Remember Jesus blighting the fig tree? And encouraging faith-prayer for the removal of this mountain? Which mountain can he mean but the temple mount they were standing on which would cease to be a focus of worship. (John 4)
And who did Jesus warn would desire the rocks to cover them?
Luke 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. 28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. 30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. 31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
These events take time to read, but are occurring concurrently. There are many believers still in the city, witnessing to the increasingly rebellious Jews, and watching for the signs Jesus gave them to know when to flee the city. That brings us to Rev.7, still within the 6 seals.
Read Mat. 24 again.
Jesus had said :
The 144,000 signify that a perfect & complete number of the tribes of Israel will be gathered before the destruction. We see them added to a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes/kindreds, and people, and tongues,
The city that had so persistently rejected its Messiah, & persecuted his followers is about to suffer its doom, as prophesied repeatedly by its Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus had said :
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Note v. 31 & read Rev. 71. And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
The believers are to be gathered before the final storm hits Jerusalem.The 144,000 signify that a perfect & complete number of the tribes of Israel will be gathered before the destruction. We see them added to a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes/kindreds, and people, and tongues,
The city that had so persistently rejected its Messiah, & persecuted his followers is about to suffer its doom, as prophesied repeatedly by its Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ.
BB....I am guessing your not a southern good ole boy are you?
God swore that Israel would be His people forever, did you miss the memo?
John saw jesus in AD95, revelation book, so where was that second coming?
I seem to be writing in invisible ink 
Google it.... ah here, I'll do it for you:
warmongering dispensationalists
evangelical support israel Armageddon
last days madness
armageddon lobby
Last edited:
No, no, no! You've completely missed the point!
Only three apostles, Peter, James and John went up the mountain to see the Transfiguration. The others died without seeing Jesus coming in His glory.
Apparently he cant see any downside to Dispensationalists. I didn't either until i sat with a bunch of them during the Bush Afgani-Iraq Conflict. I was told bluntly that in-order to provide peace in the Middle East that all Muslims must be extricated. I was like, Which Muslims.....answer was ALL MUSLIMS....Men Women Children (its a violent religion & we must be preemptive)
the Second Coming would have happened at that time if this was correct!
the coming in His glory will be the second coming, as all eyes shall see Him, and His coming will be known to all, as lightning flashes in the sky!
- Status