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5 Star General / Admiral

Discussion in 'Vets and Friends' started by Salty, Dec 4, 2016.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Current policy of DOD is that the US military will only have 5 star rank in time of war.

    IMHO - the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Ranking officer (Chief of Staff, CNO, Commandant of USMC, ect) of each service should be 5 Stars.

    Thoughts.
     
    #1 Salty, Dec 4, 2016
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    The five-star rank was instituted to make American generals like Eisenhower equal to the British Field Marshalls. Though I tend to agree, the Chief of the Joint Chiefs should carry five stars.
     
    #2 Squire Robertsson, Dec 4, 2016
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I heard the reason the US does not use the title of Field Marshal, was that Gen George Marshall refused to be addressed as Marshall Marshall.
     
    #3 Salty, Dec 5, 2016
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    That too.
     
    #4 Squire Robertsson, Dec 5, 2016
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Currently - at least in the Army - there are nine - 4 star Generals -
    At least one should be a 5 star.

    Currently among all services there are 40 hold the rank of Gen (or Admiral)
     
    #5 Salty, Dec 7, 2016
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    any more thoughts on this
     
    #6 Salty, Mar 17, 2017
  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I think it's moot as none of our allies have Field Marshals.
     
    #7 Squire Robertsson, Mar 17, 2017
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I doubt that's the reason (although he probably would not have wanted to be called Marshal Marshall).

    Field marshal had never been used as a rank in the American military, although five-star equivalents had been created that served the same purpose.

    I see no particular reason for the chief of staff to be five-star rank. He serves a prescribed term and is really the first among equals.
     
    #8 rsr, Mar 17, 2017
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Though, it would be nice to have it as a brevet retirement rank.
     
    #9 Squire Robertsson, Mar 17, 2017
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  10. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    We need to be cutting generals. Too many on the books as it is.

    Past year we had 1 general for every 416 troops on the ground fighting in Syria/Iraq.
     
    #10 Rob_BW, Mar 18, 2017
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    According to WIKI - the Army is capped at 231 Four Star Generals - in addition: No more than about 25% of a service's
    active duty general or flag officers may have more than two stars,[2] and statute sets the total number of four-star
    officers allowed in each service.[2]

    At a level of about 490,000 Army troops - that is about 1 four star for every 2,121 troops
     
    #11 Salty, Mar 18, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, 2K troops isn't even a brigade.

    I know the old idea was to have extra officers on hand for a rapid expansion, WWII style. But with modern war's reliance on technology, I just don't think that that model works any more. By the time you'd enlist a crowd of people and train them on modern equipment, the war would have already been decided or gone nuclear.

    We need to trim down the generals and their staff, and add more fighting formations.
     
    #12 Rob_BW, Mar 18, 2017
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Actually, there has been some trimming down - For example CINCUSAREUR, was a 4 star - now it is 3 star (unless he is also CINC,SHAPE)

    Apparently my quote of 231 Gens is incorrect. According to this list there are far fewer 4 stars on AD

    Apparently the "216" is the total number of 4 stars we have had - since General of the Armies George Washington.


    Note: Gen Washington was promoted to 6 Star rank on 4 Jul 1976 (sic)
     
    #13 Salty, Mar 18, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    That number is the total of general officers, not the number of four-star officers.There another 80 or so Army general officers in joint commands.

    That's total general officers in Army commands.

    The Army has a total of 11 full generals in Army and joint commands now.
     
    #14 rsr, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  15. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    That's funny you mentioned Army Europe downgrading. The Army Pacific commander was just upgraded from 3 to 4 stars in 2013.
     
    #15 Rob_BW, Mar 18, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I did like when Congress made president washington 6 star general of all armies, highest ranking military office we will eve have!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Mar 18, 2017
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  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Washington and Pershing have the same rank. Washington's is retroactive, but he outranks Pershing because of chronological precedence. Marshall deserves the same distinction, and Probably Fleet Admiral Ernest King.
     
    #17 rsr, Mar 18, 2017
  18. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Probably because the commander of the Pacific Fleet is a four-star slot.
     
    #18 rsr, Mar 18, 2017
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    From Wiki:
    In response to a direct question as to whether Pershing held six-star rank, the then Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson stated:

    It appears the intent of the Army was to make the General of the Armies senior in grade to the General of the Army. I have advised Congress that the War Department concurs in such proposed action.[5][6]
    Stimson's answer was very carefully worded and nowhere did he ever actually state that Pershing held six-star rank. The situation with Pershing was seemingly solved,...

    IMHO Washington's promotion to Gen of the Armies should have been backdated to 3 Sep 1782 (end of the War)

    In addition the Rank should be: General of the Armed Forces. GAF)
     
    #19 Salty, Mar 18, 2017
  20. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Yes, Congress recognized Pershing as an officer superior to General of the Army. Congress backdated Washington's promotion, so he became senior to Pershing. Easy peasy. You can do better than Wikipedia.

    There is no such title as General of the Armed Forces. Washington had no control over the navy. That is a modern invention derivative of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
     
    #20 rsr, Mar 18, 2017
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