Son of God vs God, the Son

[Happy]

Hi ~

Yes, Men believe BY FAITH, "Because" they reconcile themselves into a decision to TRUST GOD.

From a "baby" humans decide "whom" they TRUST. And once a TRUST is established, the TRUST continues "as long as what /who one IS TRUSTING, "remains" "trustworthy".

(For example, a baby TRUSTS its mother who feeds, cleans, soothes, comforts a baby.
A child will TRUST parents, G-parents, family members......until such time such people DO NOT maintain their trustworthiness.....and ie parents become "astounded" at a rebellious teen. )

Trust encompasses, reliance on the thing being trustworthy, EVEN WHEN, we DO NOT UNDERSTAND things.

Trusting God, also encompasses trusting those whom He appoints to teach us and it is our duty to verify our "teachers" are acting in accordance with Gods WILL.

Trust, Belief, FaithFULNESS to God, is the beginning of a mans reconciliation unto God. God Himself
also has a role in a mans reconciliation ie; forgiveness, restoring the mans soul, new heart, imparting His Spirit, quickening a mans seed, with Gods Seed (ie born again) AND maintaining the mans faithfulness.
ie (Keeping the man unto God with His Power).

Gods KNOWLEDGE is found in Scripture.
Gods UNDERSTANDING is given of God to men. <---> according to certain circumstances.

Once a man has willfully submitted himself unto God, and God has effected His part ~ THAT MAN is now prepared TO RECEIVE "Gods Understanding" which is according to God, NOT according to a man's carnal mind.

Gods Understanding is precisely what king David sought, when scripture notifies you David was a man after Gods own heart. David pursued Gods Understanding and was greatly blessed with Gods Understanding.....as was early OT men, Solomon, Abraham, others.

It is no different for ANYONE who seeks, to be given WHAT he seeks.

Some people are "using" their prayers for houses, cars, education, money, lottery, health, etc.
Few I know are actually "using" their fellowship with Christ as a means to be given Gods Understanding, which IMO, is too bad.

You study, you wonder, you ask, you wait, you receive. <--- Gods Understanding.

Prov 3

[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

1Chr.22

[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding,
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5260495
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5260495
2Tim.2

1. [7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

 

[Happy]

The Word is a person, is God, but not same as God the father, correct?

The Word of God, IS God, as IS His Spirit, His Seed, His Light, etc.

Just as WHAT is IN YOU, IS YOU. When your word comes out of your mouth, it is YOU.
God revealed His Word, in the fashion as a man, to be seen of men and to speak to men.

Your body is you, your soul is you, your spirit is you, your word is you, All identified by the name your parents gave you AND what names YOU choose to be called. It doesn't matter IF your soul is in heaven and your body in the grave.....still each is YOU.

Just as it doesn't matter, by what name God is called, or IF he is in heaven, on earth, or in hell....still each is God.

Person is commonly known as a "human" an "earthing".
Person in regard to God, is reference, or God appearing, in a fashion a "human" could comprehend the presence of God.

Gods Spirit being revealed being upon Jesus, was in the fashion of a dove, but yet we don't call Gods Spirit an animal/bird/dove. It is reveal KNOWLEDGE. The KNOWLEDGE also revealed is God is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit. And we know "angels" are spirits, yet even they appeared in the "likeness" as men.
Certainly God can also appear in the "likeness" as man. Yes?

The Word of God IS God. The Word of God, appeared unto mankind in the likeness as a man.
Man was given "something" they could see, because they have NOT the power (yet) to look upon God, AS HE IS.

And if man SEES something that LOOKS LIKE a man, he calls him a man, and thus the intent was fulfilled, Jesus was called a man. He had to be, to fulfill "human" laws of men.

 

[Happy]

Neither is the term Trinity!

Trinity is a man made term from Latin, meaning ~ Tri ~ 3 and Unity ~ 1 .... thus Trinity meaning 3 that is 1.

The Holy Trinity is a description of WHO the WHOLENESS of God is; Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

It is the wholeness of God that is with and within a man who is baptized in the Spirit of God.

It is the wholeness of God that makes, creates, and effects His WILL.

His Thoughts/Ideas ~ that we never SEE
His Word ~ that we hear, read and some men were given the opportunity to SEE Him.
His Power ~ the effects His Will be accomplished.

Nothing is made or created or fulfilled without those THREE things of God Himself.

So you are correct the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture, however the attributes of Gods works repeatedly appears in Scripture. Some things are accredited to the Unseen God, somethings to the Seen Word of God and some things to the Power of God.

And some people comprehend the knowledge, it is All ONE God, thee Lord God Almighty.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Word of God, IS God, as IS His Spirit, His Seed, His Light, etc.

Just as WHAT is IN YOU, IS YOU. When your word comes out of your mouth, it is YOU.
God revealed His Word, in the fashion as a man, to be seen of men and to speak to men.

Your body is you, your soul is you, your spirit is you, your word is you, All identified by the name your parents gave you AND what names YOU choose to be called. It doesn't matter IF your soul is in heaven and your body in the grave.....still each is YOU.

Just as it doesn't matter, by what name God is called, or IF he is in heaven, on earth, or in hell....still each is God.

Person is commonly known as a "human" an "earthing".
Person in regard to God, is reference, or God appearing, in a fashion a "human" could comprehend the presence of God.

Gods Spirit being revealed being upon Jesus, was in the fashion of a dove, but yet we don't call Gods Spirit an animal/bird/dove. It is reveal KNOWLEDGE. The KNOWLEDGE also revealed is God is Spirit, Jesus is Spirit. And we know "angels" are spirits, yet even they appeared in the "likeness" as men.
Certainly God can also appear in the "likeness" as man. Yes?

The Word of God IS God. The Word of God, appeared unto mankind in the likeness as a man.
Man was given "something" they could see, because they have NOT the power (yet) to look upon God, AS HE IS.

And if man SEES something that LOOKS LIKE a man, he calls him a man, and thus the intent was fulfilled, Jesus was called a man. He had to be, to fulfill "human" laws of men.

His Word existed as a Person before coming to earth. correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Trinity is a man made term from Latin, meaning ~ Tri ~ 3 and Unity ~ 1 .... thus Trinity meaning 3 that is 1.

The Holy Trinity is a description of WHO the WHOLENESS of God is; Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

It is the wholeness of God that is with and within a man who is baptized in the Spirit of God.

It is the wholeness of God that makes, creates, and effects His WILL.

His Thoughts/Ideas ~ that we never SEE
His Word ~ that we hear, read and some men were given the opportunity to SEE Him.
His Power ~ the effects His Will be accomplished.

Nothing is made or created or fulfilled without those THREE things of God Himself.

So you are correct the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture, however the attributes of Gods works repeatedly appears in Scripture. Some things are accredited to the Unseen God, somethings to the Seen Word of God and some things to the Power of God.

And some people comprehend the knowledge, it is All ONE God, thee Lord God Almighty.

Right now there are 3 Persons called God, all God, but also all distinct, correct?

 

[Happy]

His Word existed as a Person before coming to earth. correct?

His (everlasting) Word has been coming forth to the earth since the beginning of mankind. (Micah 5:2)
His (everlasting) Word was to be revealed in the fashion as a man in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
His (everlasting) Word shall be the ruler in Israel. (Micah 5:2)

Mic 5
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

In the later days, His Word would be called the Son of God.
His Word, is by "what/whom" the worlds were made. (God speaking forth His Word, and things appeared)

Heb.1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <---- Worlds
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. <---Gods Power ie Spirit effecting what He speaks happens.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <----Gods Word Speaking.

Jesus IS Gods Word.
Christ IS Gods Power.

Rev 19

[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

1Cor.1

1. [24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

God has the POWER to appear to mankind in a fashion He chooses.
God purposed in Himself to do things as He promised He would do, according to His manner and pleasure to effect His will.

Eph.1

1. [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

 

[Yeshua1]

His (everlasting) Word has been coming forth to the earth since the beginning of mankind. (Micah 5:2)
His (everlasting) Word was to be revealed in the fashion as a man in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
His (everlasting) Word shall be the ruler in Israel. (Micah 5:2)

Mic 5
[2] But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

In the later days, His Word would be called the Son of God.
His Word, is by "what/whom" the worlds were made. (God speaking forth His Word, and things appeared)

Heb.1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <---- Worlds
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. <---Gods Power ie Spirit effecting what He speaks happens.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <----Gods Word Speaking.

Jesus IS Gods Word.
Christ IS Gods Power.

Rev 19

[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

1Cor.1

1. [24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

God has the POWER to appear to mankind in a fashion He chooses.
God purposed in Himself to do things as He promised He would do, according to His manner and pleasure to effect His will.

Eph.1

1. [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

So the Word was a Person who was called God, just as the father is called God then? They existed forever, 2 different Persons, but both God?

 

[Happy]

Right now there are 3 Persons called God, all God, but also all distinct, correct?

Calling God "3 persons", is a teaching method.

God has revealed He is eternal, everlasting, and speaks and effects all things by Him be created and made.

Scripture reveals ~ to call God unseen in heaven ~ LORD, Jehovah, I AM, God Almighty, Spirit, etc.
Scripture reveals ~ to call Gods Word ~ Lord, Jesus, Man, Spirit, etc.
Scripture reveals ~ to call Gods Power ~ Spirit, Christ, Holy, Wisdom, All knowing, etc.

Calling each BY a particular "name" reveals what those things are DOING.
Calling each BY a particular "name" AND ie "person", reveals what is being done is "attributed" to what "member / part" of God effecting His Will (ie His doing).

We (who are saved and born again) are entitled to the Understanding according to God, that each member/part of God does certain things, and makeup the WHOLE of God.

We are taught via Scripture to REMEMBER what God does, and by what name He is called WHEN He is doing what He does.

Thus WE KNOW He IS He ~ One Lord God Almighty
And WE KNOW His Works come into fruition BECAUSE the WHOLE of Him...
.....His thoughts, HIs plan, His Word, His Power all working together to effect His WILL be accomplished.

 

[Yeshua1]

Calling God "3 persons", is a teaching method.

God has revealed He is eternal, everlasting, and speaks and effects all things by Him be created and made.

Scripture reveals ~ to call God unseen in heaven ~ LORD, Jehovah, I AM, God Almighty, Spirit, etc.
Scripture reveals ~ to call Gods Word ~ Lord, Jesus, Man, Spirit, etc.
Scripture reveals ~ to call Gods Power ~ Spirit, Christ, Holy, Wisdom, All knowing, etc.

Calling each BY a particular "name" reveals what those things are DOING.
Calling each BY a particular "name" AND ie "person", reveals what is being done is "attributed" to what "member / part" of God effecting His Will (ie His doing).

We (who are saved and born again) are entitled to the Understanding according to God, that each member/part of God does certain things, and makeup the WHOLE of God.

We are taught via Scripture to REMEMBER what God does, and by what name He is called WHEN He is doing what He does.

Thus WE KNOW He IS He ~ One Lord God Almighty
And WE KNOW His Works come into fruition BECAUSE the WHOLE of Him...
.....His thoughts, HIs plan, His Word, His Power all working together to effect His WILL be accomplished.

Right now, are there 3 persons who we call God, or just One God who has those 3 names?

 

[ICHTHUS]

"Anyone who transgresses, and abides not in the teaching of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the teaching of Christ, this has both the Father and the Son" – verse 9

Note very closely the language here. In the first instance, those who transgress by not remaining in the Doctrine of Christ, are said not to possess God. On the other hand, those who do so remain in the Doctrine of Christ, are said to possess “both the Father and the Son”. We would have expected John to have written, “this has God”, which would correspond with the previous sentence, where he spoke of those who transgress, as having “not God”. But, this he does not do. While using the Name, God, in the first instance. John then expands on this by saying that BOTH the Father and the Son, are this one use of God! Equally. God the Father, God the Son.

This is exactly what we read of the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter five. Where in verse three Peter tells Ananias that he had “lied to the Holy Spirit”. And, yet in the following verse, to show the severity of this, Peter says, “you have not lied to man, but to God”. Firstly, the Personality of the Holy Spirit (Greek, to pneuma to hagion) is clearly shown here. As it is impossible for anyone to “deceive” (Greek verb, pseudo, “to deceive by lies”) an “impersonal” thing, as those like the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach concerning the Holy Spirit, which is blasphemy. Further, Peter says that Ananias’ great sin was not against some “mere” human being, BUT, against “God”. Note in the Greek the article used “toi theoi”, clearly speaking of the Deity of the Holy Spirit. Like our verse in 2 John, we would have expected Peter to have said, “you have not lied to man, but to the Holy Spirit”. While this is what he does mean, yet he went further by here calling the Holy Spirit ALMIGHTY GOD, as does John in his second Epistle.

Coming back to our text, let us examine it from the Greek text. Interestingly, the use of “Theos” here is without the definite article. Would any dare render this in English as “god”?. John then says in the sentence that we are looking at, “kai ton petera kai ton huion echei”. = “has both the Father and the Son”. The first use of the particle, kai, has the meaning “both”, where those referred to must be taken together, and without any distinction. And the second use, its common one, “and”. We then have the case, where each of the nouns in the sentence, here, Father and Son, is with the definite article, “ton” (the). This, according to the strict rules of Greek grammar, clearly shows that the two Persons are not one and the same. The Father, as a Person, is not the same as the Son as a Person. They are separate Persons. A long while back, this “rule” was laid down by the Greek scholar, Granville Sharpe, and still holds true today.

"When the copulative kai (and) connects two nouns of the same case, if the article ho (the) or any of its cases precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle; i.e., it denotes a further description of the first-named person" ( Granville Sharp; Remarks on the Uses of the Definitive Article in the Greek Text of the New Testament, Containing many proofs of the Divinity of Christ, page 8)

While the grammar of this sentence clearly shows that the Father and the Son are indeed separate Persons, at the same time, the use of theos in this verse without the article, is done so for exactly the same reason as in John 1:1. In both cases, the use of theos is speaking of the “being” or “nature” of those referred to, as in John 1:1, “the Word”; and here in 2 John 9, of the Father and the Son. The Greek grammar shows the Father and the Son as Individual Persons, yet their Unity as God is also established.

Similar language can be seen in John 10:30, where Jesus says: “I and the Father are one”. The plurality of Persons is clear from the use of “esmen”, which in the Greek is in the masculine gender, and plural in number. “we are”, not simply, “are”. Which is also seen in the use of “I”, as distinguished from “the Father”, which is with the Greek article, “ho”. However, the use of “one” is in the neuter gender, hen, literally, “one thing”, or, “one being”. So, the text has the meaning, that, We, Who are distinct as Two separate Persons, and yet one with regard to our being, or nature.

The evidence is very clear to the fact, as taught in Scripture, that the Father and the Son, though clearly separate as Persons, are yet equal as Deity. In which case neither could be the “source” of the other’s life or being. Nor could either one exist before the other. All of which is also very true with regard to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Happy]

So the Word was a Person who was called God, just as the father is called God then? They existed forever, 2 different Persons, but both God?

PEOPLE ~ EARTHLINGS are Carnal and are Persons.

GOD IS SPIRIT !

God can APPEAR in any fashion He desires.
We KNOW God has appeared as a Person (ie Human man), as a Dove, as an Angel, as whatever pleases Him to accomplish His Will.

It is all the SAME ONE Spirit, SAME ONE God, regardless of the TIME frame, regardless IF you know God is IN Heaven and ON Earth at the SAME TIME. God can be ALL places at once.

When God APPEARED on Earth in the fashion of a man, at the TIME He was called the Son of God, ie Jesus, ie Christ the Lord; He was ALSO known to be IN Heaven. Same ONE God.

1 Tim 3
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Yeshua1]

PEOPLE ~ EARTHLINGS are Carnal and are Persons.

GOD IS SPIRIT !

God can APPEAR in any fashion He desires.
We KNOW God has appeared as a Person (ie Human man), as a Dove, as an Angel, as whatever pleases Him to accomplish His Will.

It is all the SAME ONE Spirit, SAME ONE God, regardless of the TIME frame, regardless IF you know God is IN Heaven and ON Earth at the SAME TIME. God can be ALL places at once.

When God APPEARED on Earth in the fashion of a man, at the TIME He was called the Son of God, ie Jesus, ie Christ the Lord; He was ALSO known to be IN Heaven. Same ONE God.

1 Tim 3
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Do you hold to there are 3 separate Persons called God, or that God is One person, goes by name of father/Jesus/Holy Spirit?

 

[ICHTHUS]

PEOPLE ~ EARTHLINGS are Carnal and are Persons.

GOD IS SPIRIT !

God can APPEAR in any fashion He desires.
We KNOW God has appeared as a Person (ie Human man), as a Dove, as an Angel, as whatever pleases Him to accomplish His Will.

It is all the SAME ONE Spirit, SAME ONE God, regardless of the TIME frame, regardless IF you know God is IN Heaven and ON Earth at the SAME TIME. God can be ALL places at once.

When God APPEARED on Earth in the fashion of a man, at the TIME He was called the Son of God, ie Jesus, ie Christ the Lord; He was ALSO known to be IN Heaven. Same ONE God.

1 Tim 3
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Are you saying that there is only one Person in the Godhead, and not Three Persons, Who are distinct, The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit, Who are coequal, coeternal and coessential, and yet One God? God never appeared as a "dove". the Holy Spirit, Who is not visible, when He descended on Jesus at His baptism, was "visible" when the dove came on Jesus., the dove was just a bird and not the Holy Spirit.

 

[Happy]

Right now, are there 3 persons who we call God, or just One God who has those 3 names?

One God, known by SEVERAL NAMES. Calling particulars of His NAME (persons) is for teaching.
ALL of His NAMES are GREAT. His NAMES are exalted WHEN we praise His Holy Name.

1Sam.12

1. [22] For the LORD will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you his people.

God IS Spirit. God is NOT a BODY. He HAS a BODY.

Mankind IS a BODY. We are NOT Spirit. We HAVE a spirit.

 

[ICHTHUS]

One God, known by SEVERAL NAMES. Calling particulars of His NAME (persons) is for teaching.
ALL of His NAMES are GREAT. His NAMES are exalted WHEN we praise His Holy Name.

1Sam.12

1. [22] For the LORD will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you his people.

God IS Spirit. God is NOT a BODY. He HAS a BODY.

Mankind IS a BODY. We are NOT Spirit. We HAVE a spirit.

This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical.

 

[Happy]

Are you saying that there is only one Person in the Godhead, and not Three Persons, Who are distinct, The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit, Who are coequal, coeternal and coessential, and yet One God? God never appeared as a "dove". the Holy Spirit, Who is not visible, when He descended on Jesus at His baptism, was "visible" when the dove came on Jesus., the dove was just a bird and not the Holy Spirit.

Actually, I believe PERSON is a term to distinguish.
Humans are Persons.
When God appeared unto mankind as JESUS, He appeared as a PERSON, A MAN, A BODY ~ something that mankind could SEE, recognize and communicate with.

As long as there are HUMANS, and God IS WITH THEM, GOD will have a "COVER" that prevents mankind from SEEING HIM with HUMAN EYES. The exception is WHEN a man received his new BODY, THEN a man can SEE Him as He is.

The Holy Spirit IS God. And it was the appearance of a Dove that notified witnesses, they were in the presence of God. No. It was not "just" a bird that landed on Jesus' shoulder by happenstance. It was notice, they were in the presence of God.

We have distinct names for God in Heaven, Gods Word, Gods Spirit, and distinct notice of what each does. It is all ONE God.

 

[Happy]

This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical.

Really,
you think it is heretical that God is called by several names?
you think it is heretical that Gods names are great?
you think it is heretical to praise Gods holy name?
you think God is a person?

Interesting. Perhaps you should check what Scripture does teach.

Pss.68

1. [4] Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Exod.6

1. [2] And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

Gen.17
[1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God;

Exod.3
[14] And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:

John 4
[24] God is a Spirit:

 

[TCassidy]

you think it is heretical that God is called by several names?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

you think it is heretical that Gods names are great?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

you think it is heretical to praise Gods holy name?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

you think God is a person?

God says He is a Person. In fact He is three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God. Three Persons.

 

[ICHTHUS]

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

God says He is a Person. In fact He is three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God. Three Persons.

Please see the words used above by "Happy" which does show his views on the Holy Trinity are indeed heretical

 

[TCassidy]

Go back and read my post. I was asking Happy to support her claims.