Son of God vs God, the Son

[JonC]

One God, known by SEVERAL NAMES. Calling particulars of His NAME (persons) is for teaching.

While you may use it that way, within "orthodox Christianity" referring to God in three persons is not a mechanism for teaching. Historically, the "person" part has been debated, but insofar as Trinitarian doctrine (to include Baptist doctrine) "persons" means three distinct persons in one God. The point of the Incarnation is that this God who is spirit became man (Jesus is truly God and truly man, and as the Son is distinct from the Father).

 

[ICHTHUS]

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

God says He is a Person. In fact He is three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God. Three Persons.

I said to Happy, "This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical." to which she responded and you quoted

 

[TCassidy]

I said to Happy, "This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical." to which she responded and you quoted

Yes, I know. I was challenging Happy to support her claim that

you think it is heretical that God is called by several names?

And that

you think it is heretical that Gods names are great?

And that

you think it is heretical to praise Gods holy name?

Good grief! I defend you against false charges made against you and you chastise me for doing so?

 

[ICHTHUS]

Go back and read my post. I was asking Happy to support her claims.

This is what happy posted above:

"Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <---- Worlds
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. <---Gods Power ie Spirit effecting what He speaks happens.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <----Gods Word Speaking.

Jesus IS Gods Word.
Christ IS Gods Power."

And,

"Trinity is a man made term from Latin, meaning ~ Tri ~ 3 and Unity ~ 1 .... thus Trinity meaning 3 that is 1.

The Holy Trinity is a description of WHO the WHOLENESS of God is; Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

It is the wholeness of God that is with and within a man who is baptized in the Spirit of God.

It is the wholeness of God that makes, creates, and effects His WILL.

His Thoughts/Ideas ~ that we never SEE
His Word ~ that we hear, read and some men were given the opportunity to SEE Him.
His Power ~ the effects His Will be accomplished.

Nothing is made or created or fulfilled without those THREE things of God Himself.

So you are correct the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture, however the attributes of Gods works repeatedly appears in Scripture. Some things are accredited to the Unseen God, somethings to the Seen Word of God and some things to the Power of God.

And some people comprehend the knowledge, it is All ONE God, thee Lord God Almighty.

This is very much "modalism", and not the Biblical teaching of the Holy Trinity

 

[TCassidy]

This is what happy posted above:

"Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <---- Worlds
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. <---Gods Power ie Spirit effecting what He speaks happens.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <----Gods Word Speaking.

Jesus IS Gods Word.
Christ IS Gods Power."

And,

"Trinity is a man made term from Latin, meaning ~ Tri ~ 3 and Unity ~ 1 .... thus Trinity meaning 3 that is 1.

The Holy Trinity is a description of WHO the WHOLENESS of God is; Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

It is the wholeness of God that is with and within a man who is baptized in the Spirit of God.

It is the wholeness of God that makes, creates, and effects His WILL.

His Thoughts/Ideas ~ that we never SEE
His Word ~ that we hear, read and some men were given the opportunity to SEE Him.
His Power ~ the effects His Will be accomplished.

Nothing is made or created or fulfilled without those THREE things of God Himself.

So you are correct the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture, however the attributes of Gods works repeatedly appears in Scripture. Some things are accredited to the Unseen God, somethings to the Seen Word of God and some things to the Power of God.

And some people comprehend the knowledge, it is All ONE God, thee Lord God Almighty.

This is very much "modalism", and not the Biblical teaching of the Holy Trinity

Okay. I am going to try one more time, and if it does not work I will close the thread.

Happy accused you of something you have not said:

you think it is heretical that God is called by several names?
you think it is heretical that Gods names are great?
you think it is heretical to praise Gods holy name?
you think God is a person?

I challenged her to support her (false) claim by posting a quote from you where you have said any such thing.

That is all my post was about. It was not about other things she said. It was not about her apparent modalism. It was about one thing and one thing only. Her (false) accusation against you.

End of discussion.

 

[Happy]

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

I don't recall anyone saying that. Could you post the quote, please?

God says He is a Person. In fact He is three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One God. Three Persons.

Post 34 Post 35

I said something and the reply was it was ....

"This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical."

#35 ICHTHUS, Yesterday at 3:52 PM

 

[Yeshua1]

Please see the words used above by "Happy" which does show his views on the Holy Trinity are indeed heretical

Those views seem to be either Modualism, or Jesus oneness as some Charasmatics hold with!

 

[Yeshua1]

Post 34 Post 35

I said something and the reply was it was ....

"This is not what the Holy Bible teaches and clearly heretical."

#35 ICHTHUS, Yesterday at 3:52 PM

Are you agreeing with that reply then?

 

[Happy]

So the Word was a Person who was called God, just as the father is called God then? They existed forever, 2 different Persons, but both God?

You are a person, you come to this site and post as Yeshua1, speaking your word. Are you and your word 2 different persons?

 

[Happy]

Are you agreeing with that reply then?

No.

 

[Happy]

Okay. I am going to try one more time, and if it does not work I will close the thread.

Happy accused you of something you have not said:
I challenged her to support her (false) claim by posting a quote from you where you have said any such thing.

That is all my post was about. It was not about other things she said. It was not about her apparent modalism. It was about one thing and one thing only. Her (false) accusation against you.

End of discussion.

Do you comprehend what an accusation is?
I asked question.
He said my post was of a heretic nature <---- THAT is an accusation!

 

[Happy]

Those views seem to be either Modualism, or Jesus oneness as some Charasmatics hold with!

Jesus QUOTE:

John 10:30 I and MY Father are ONE.

ONE what?

 

[Happy]

Please see the words used above by "Happy" which does show his views on the Holy Trinity are indeed heretical

What do you think the Son was BEFORE He came to earth in the fashion as a man and God said "he shall be to me A Son"?

Heb.1

1. [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

 

[Happy]

So the Word was a Person who was called God, just as the father is called God then? They existed forever, 2 different Persons, but both God?

The Word of God, comes out of Gods mouth, just as your word comes out of your mouth.

If you were on trial for something, and found guilty of something; would they put Your body in prison or Your word?

 

[Happy]

Right now, are there 3 persons who we call God, or just One God who has those 3 names?

Right now we have the UNSEEN God in Heaven called LORD, the LORD'S Word with us, called Lord JESUS, and God's Spirit (within a believer who is born again).

We can not SEE Gods shape or HEAR Gods voice with carnal eyes or canal ears. God IS Spirit and communicates to us IN Spirit, HOWEVER, in times past has communicated with mankind, VIA His Word, in the fashion of an Angel and Man.

WHEN, a saved (soul) and born again (spirit) AND bodily changed is ALL accomplished, THEN we shall see Him AS HE IS. THEN, shall there be ONE LORD and His NAME ONE.

1John.3

1. [2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Zech 14

[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

 

[Happy]

While you may use it that way, within "orthodox Christianity" referring to God in three persons is not a mechanism for teaching. Historically, the "person" part has been debated, but insofar as Trinitarian doctrine (to include Baptist doctrine) "persons" means three distinct persons in one God. The point of the Incarnation is that this God who is spirit became man (Jesus is truly God and truly man, and as the Son is distinct from the Father).

Do you object to ONE God?
Do you object to one LORD, one Lord, is ONE God?

I don't, nor have I said that I do.

Deut 6: [4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Mark 12: [29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

John 10: 30 I and my father are one.

 

[Happy]

This is what happy posted above:

"Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. <---- Worlds
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. <---Gods Power ie Spirit effecting what He speaks happens.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <----Gods Word Speaking.

Jesus IS Gods Word.
Christ IS Gods Power."

And,

"Trinity is a man made term from Latin, meaning ~ Tri ~ 3 and Unity ~ 1 .... thus Trinity meaning 3 that is 1.

The Holy Trinity is a description of WHO the WHOLENESS of God is; Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

It is the wholeness of God that is with and within a man who is baptized in the Spirit of God.

It is the wholeness of God that makes, creates, and effects His WILL.

His Thoughts/Ideas ~ that we never SEE
His Word ~ that we hear, read and some men were given the opportunity to SEE Him.
His Power ~ the effects His Will be accomplished.

Nothing is made or created or fulfilled without those THREE things of God Himself.

So you are correct the word Trinity does not appear in Scripture, however the attributes of Gods works repeatedly appears in Scripture. Some things are accredited to the Unseen God, somethings to the Seen Word of God and some things to the Power of God.

And some people comprehend the knowledge, it is All ONE God, thee Lord God Almighty.

This is very much "modalism", and not the Biblical teaching of the Holy Trinity

"modalism" ~ "heretic"

Instead of diverting to "name calling", how about you actually make your protest against me regarding specifically what I have said?

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" One Lord God Almighty.

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" "He" who;
...Decides His Will, Speaks His Will, and Effects with His Power....His Will.

I believe GOD calls those things which be not as though they were.

I believe mankind IS CORRUPT.
I believe GOD IS TOO HOLY to BE SEEN or to BE HEARD by men (without God Having a COVER).

GOD provides His OWN COVER, in the times (eras), and in the fashions HE decided.

GOD (removes His OWN Cover), in the times (eras), and TO WHOM, He decides.

I believe ANY MAN, "WHO", Trusts God, Believes God, Submits in Faithfulness to God;
IS thereafter "entitled", to direct communication with God;
AND
IS "entitled" to Gods Understanding, of the Scriptures, and WHAT "things" He "called" which be not, "as though they were".

The FACT IS; God does not "have" babies, sons, children. He CAN NOT "reproduce offspring".
BECAUSE; God IS eternal, everlasting, without beginning, without ending, THUS it is "IMPOSSIBLE" to "reproduce" "make" "create" something "without" a beginning.

The FACT IS; God CAN and DOES "call" things; His Son, His sons, His children, BECAUSE it is His Pleasure to call "things" which are NOT, as though they were.

When a HUMAN, Earthy man, is called the "son of God", it is NOT because copulation was involved. It is solely because He gives the man a NEW HEART; He plants HIS SEED in a mans NEW HEART; and HIS SEED "IS" His PURE TRUTH.
And thereafter; such man has access to Gods PURE TRUTH, (void of man having to rely on his carnal mind to ATTEMPT to understand God, via such mans LIMITED knowledge and logic).

Scripture clearly teaches ~
...Gods PURE TRUTH is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to SEE is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to HEAR is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for HIS WORD is called JESUS.

The KNOWLEDGE of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed in Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed BY GOD Himself "giving" "HIS" understanding to individuals, WHO SEEK and TRUST what He reveals to them.

Scripture plainly reveals;
Gods Word is God, Gods Power is God, God Wisdom is God, and God is ONE God, regardless of WHAT part (thought, deed, word, power, etc.) of God is being revealed, named, titled, called.

And experience of and nature of a NATURAL MAN, is he also, has thoughts, words, power, wisdom, etc., YET (like God) is ONLY ONE man.

It does not matter HOW MANY "names and titles or attributes" a human man is "called" or "described as";
He is still ONLY ONE man; and every "name, title or attribute" he is "called by", DOES NOT make the man "multiple" persons, "multiple" men.

God is NOT multiple "Gods". He is ONE GOD, "with" multiple names, titles and attributes, that ALL those things APPLY "specifically" to God, and Scripture "repeatedly" teaches this is TRUE.

Scripture ALSO teaches to "TEACH", "REPEAT" and "REMEMBER" the names, titles, attributes and WORKS OF what God does, and what He is called by, WHEN He does such works.

However NO WHERE in Scripture does it TEACH, for a man to TEACH, God is NOT thee ONE GOD.

God, Most High God, Almighty, LORD, Lord, Yahweh, JAH, Holy One, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Everlasting, Jesus, Power, Omnipresent, Omniscience, Omnipotent, Angel of the Lord, High Priest, Master, Creator, Maker, Life, Truth, Way, Giver, Taker, Savior, Redeemer, etc..etc.. ALL the SAME ONE GOD.

You reference me (my words) as heretical. No they are not.
Scripture teaches "THEY ARE ONE". "THEY ARE HE".

Gen 15
[7] And he said unto him, I am the LORD...

Isa 41
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa 48
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isa.43

1. [10] Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

John.13

1. [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

"I tell you before" <---- KNOWLEDGE
"when it is come to pass" <---- REVEALED
"believe" <---BEFORE it is revealed
JESUS "IS" HE!

 

[ICHTHUS]

"modalism" ~ "heretic"

Instead of diverting to "name calling", how about you actually make your protest against me regarding specifically what I have said?

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" One Lord God Almighty.

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" "He" who;
...Decides His Will, Speaks His Will, and Effects with His Power....His Will.

I believe GOD calls those things which be not as though they were.

I believe mankind IS CORRUPT.
I believe GOD IS TOO HOLY to BE SEEN or to BE HEARD by men (without God Having a COVER).

GOD provides His OWN COVER, in the times (eras), and in the fashions HE decided.

GOD (removes His OWN Cover), in the times (eras), and TO WHOM, He decides.

I believe ANY MAN, "WHO", Trusts God, Believes God, Submits in Faithfulness to God;
IS thereafter "entitled", to direct communication with God;
AND
IS "entitled" to Gods Understanding, of the Scriptures, and WHAT "things" He "called" which be not, "as though they were".

The FACT IS; God does not "have" babies, sons, children. He CAN NOT "reproduce offspring".
BECAUSE; God IS eternal, everlasting, without beginning, without ending, THUS it is "IMPOSSIBLE" to "reproduce" "make" "create" something "without" a beginning.

The FACT IS; God CAN and DOES "call" things; His Son, His sons, His children, BECAUSE it is His Pleasure to call "things" which are NOT, as though they were.

When a HUMAN, Earthy man, is called the "son of God", it is NOT because copulation was involved. It is solely because He gives the man a NEW HEART; He plants HIS SEED in a mans NEW HEART; and HIS SEED "IS" His PURE TRUTH.
And thereafter; such man has access to Gods PURE TRUTH, (void of man having to rely on his carnal mind to ATTEMPT to understand God, via such mans LIMITED knowledge and logic).

Scripture clearly teaches ~
...Gods PURE TRUTH is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to SEE is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to HEAR is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for HIS WORD is called JESUS.

The KNOWLEDGE of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed in Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed BY GOD Himself "giving" "HIS" understanding to individuals, WHO SEEK and TRUST what He reveals to them.

Scripture plainly reveals;
Gods Word is God, Gods Power is God, God Wisdom is God, and God is ONE God, regardless of WHAT part (thought, deed, word, power, etc.) of God is being revealed, named, titled, called.

And experience of and nature of a NATURAL MAN, is he also, has thoughts, words, power, wisdom, etc., YET (like God) is ONLY ONE man.

It does not matter HOW MANY "names and titles or attributes" a human man is "called" or "described as";
He is still ONLY ONE man; and every "name, title or attribute" he is "called by", DOES NOT make the man "multiple" persons, "multiple" men.

God is NOT multiple "Gods". He is ONE GOD, "with" multiple names, titles and attributes, that ALL those things APPLY "specifically" to God, and Scripture "repeatedly" teaches this is TRUE.

Scripture ALSO teaches to "TEACH", "REPEAT" and "REMEMBER" the names, titles, attributes and WORKS OF what God does, and what He is called by, WHEN He does such works.

However NO WHERE in Scripture does it TEACH, for a man to TEACH, God is NOT thee ONE GOD.

God, Most High God, Almighty, LORD, Lord, Yahweh, JAH, Holy One, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Everlasting, Jesus, Power, Omnipresent, Omniscience, Omnipotent, Angel of the Lord, High Priest, Master, Creator, Maker, Life, Truth, Way, Giver, Taker, Savior, Redeemer, etc..etc.. ALL the SAME ONE GOD.

You reference me (my words) as heretical. No they are not.
Scripture teaches "THEY ARE ONE". "THEY ARE HE".

Gen 15
[7] And he said unto him, I am the LORD...

Isa 41
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa 48
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isa.43

1. [10] Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

John.13

1. [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

"I tell you before" <---- KNOWLEDGE
"when it is come to pass" <---- REVEALED
"believe" <---BEFORE it is revealed
JESUS "IS" HE!

Hello Happy, I will post a public apology and retraction IF you can post here that you believe in the Teaching of the Holy Bible on the Holy Trinity?

Do you fully believe that the Bible Teaches that there is ONE GOD (the Godhead), but that there are THREE SEPARATE PERSONS in the GODHEAD, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit? THREE PERSONS, and ONE GOD? When Jesus Christ was on earth, He was NOT also the Father, or the Holy Spirit? When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, He was NOT the Father or the Son? Your language shows that you do not hold this position, and therefore I have raised this issue, as it is very damaging to anyone on this forum, as it is NOT what the Holy Bible Teaches. As I say, I am ready to apologize and stand corrected if I have been wrong.

 

[ICHTHUS]

What do you think the Son was BEFORE He came to earth in the fashion as a man and God said "he shall be to me A Son"?

Heb.1

1. [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Jesus Christ is the ETERNAL GOD, Yahweh, Who like the Father and Holy Spirit, is ETERNAL, and COEQUAL and COESSENTIAL with BOTH the Father and Holy Spirit. THREE PERSONS, ONE GODHEAD. Not, 1+1+1=3, But, 1x1x1=1

 

[Yeshua1]

"modalism" ~ "heretic"

Instead of diverting to "name calling", how about you actually make your protest against me regarding specifically what I have said?

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" One Lord God Almighty.

I believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit "IS" "He" who;
...Decides His Will, Speaks His Will, and Effects with His Power....His Will.

I believe GOD calls those things which be not as though they were.

I believe mankind IS CORRUPT.
I believe GOD IS TOO HOLY to BE SEEN or to BE HEARD by men (without God Having a COVER).

GOD provides His OWN COVER, in the times (eras), and in the fashions HE decided.

GOD (removes His OWN Cover), in the times (eras), and TO WHOM, He decides.

I believe ANY MAN, "WHO", Trusts God, Believes God, Submits in Faithfulness to God;
IS thereafter "entitled", to direct communication with God;
AND
IS "entitled" to Gods Understanding, of the Scriptures, and WHAT "things" He "called" which be not, "as though they were".

The FACT IS; God does not "have" babies, sons, children. He CAN NOT "reproduce offspring".
BECAUSE; God IS eternal, everlasting, without beginning, without ending, THUS it is "IMPOSSIBLE" to "reproduce" "make" "create" something "without" a beginning.

The FACT IS; God CAN and DOES "call" things; His Son, His sons, His children, BECAUSE it is His Pleasure to call "things" which are NOT, as though they were.

When a HUMAN, Earthy man, is called the "son of God", it is NOT because copulation was involved. It is solely because He gives the man a NEW HEART; He plants HIS SEED in a mans NEW HEART; and HIS SEED "IS" His PURE TRUTH.
And thereafter; such man has access to Gods PURE TRUTH, (void of man having to rely on his carnal mind to ATTEMPT to understand God, via such mans LIMITED knowledge and logic).

Scripture clearly teaches ~
...Gods PURE TRUTH is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to SEE is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for mankind to HEAR is called JESUS.
...Gods COVER for HIS WORD is called JESUS.

The KNOWLEDGE of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed in Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING of Gods "COVER" is plainly revealed BY GOD Himself "giving" "HIS" understanding to individuals, WHO SEEK and TRUST what He reveals to them.

Scripture plainly reveals;
Gods Word is God, Gods Power is God, God Wisdom is God, and God is ONE God, regardless of WHAT part (thought, deed, word, power, etc.) of God is being revealed, named, titled, called.

And experience of and nature of a NATURAL MAN, is he also, has thoughts, words, power, wisdom, etc., YET (like God) is ONLY ONE man.

It does not matter HOW MANY "names and titles or attributes" a human man is "called" or "described as";
He is still ONLY ONE man; and every "name, title or attribute" he is "called by", DOES NOT make the man "multiple" persons, "multiple" men.

God is NOT multiple "Gods". He is ONE GOD, "with" multiple names, titles and attributes, that ALL those things APPLY "specifically" to God, and Scripture "repeatedly" teaches this is TRUE.

Scripture ALSO teaches to "TEACH", "REPEAT" and "REMEMBER" the names, titles, attributes and WORKS OF what God does, and what He is called by, WHEN He does such works.

However NO WHERE in Scripture does it TEACH, for a man to TEACH, God is NOT thee ONE GOD.

God, Most High God, Almighty, LORD, Lord, Yahweh, JAH, Holy One, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Everlasting, Jesus, Power, Omnipresent, Omniscience, Omnipotent, Angel of the Lord, High Priest, Master, Creator, Maker, Life, Truth, Way, Giver, Taker, Savior, Redeemer, etc..etc.. ALL the SAME ONE GOD.

You reference me (my words) as heretical. No they are not.
Scripture teaches "THEY ARE ONE". "THEY ARE HE".

Gen 15
[7] And he said unto him, I am the LORD...

Isa 41
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa 48
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isa.43

1. [10] Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

John.13

1. [19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

"I tell you before" <---- KNOWLEDGE
"when it is come to pass" <---- REVEALED
"believe" <---BEFORE it is revealed
JESUS "IS" HE!

Are the 3 persons right now in heaven who we call God, or just one person , who was called Father/Son/Holy Spirit?