1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured 2 Peter 2:1 shows Jesus died for the non-elect

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by ICHTHUS, Mar 23, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Martin Andrews

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, this is even though "πνεῦμα" is in the neuter. Grammatically, Jesus would have used "τo παρακλτov", and "εκειvo", to agree with "πνεῦμα", as we have it in chapter 14. Even the fact that Jesus uses "ἄλλον" (another, like Himself) and not "ἕτερον", (another, different to Himself), which also shows the Personality of the Holy Spirit, as well as His Deity.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So why have basically all modern versions never called Him as an it then though?
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Already dealt with, above.
     
  4. Martin Andrews

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, I have just mentioned this
     
  5. Martin Andrews

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because both Biblically and theologically, the Holy Spirit is a Person, as He "teaches, leads, prays, can be grieved, commissions, is called God, Lord,", etc. These cannot be said for something "impersonal".
     
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You'll have to ask the translators. But I suspect it's because gender in English means something entirely different than it does in Greek, and when the translations were being made they followed the rules of English grammar (using dynamic equivalence) rather than the Rules of Greek grammar (using formal equivalence).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why not call Him as Jesus did though?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is why he should not be called as an it!
    "THE SPIRIT ITSELF" OR THE GREATEST DEFECT IN THE KJV - PRINT VERSION
    Seems to answer this well!
     
  9. Martin Andrews

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would not let the use of the neuter worry you, as it is purely a grammatical thing, agreement of gender. But as we have seen, Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as a He as He is a Person as Jesus is. It is interesting that in 1 John 1:1, we see Jesus Christ referred to in the neuter gender: "Ὃ ἦν ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν ἐψηλάφησαν περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς". "that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life". No one would ever use this to say Jesus is not a Person!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those 2 cases would indeed show that despite being in the Greek as a neuter gender, really should always be as masculine for the Holy Spirit!
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six Hour Warning

    This thread will be closed some time after 9 PM Pacific.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you think God inspired the wrong word? What other parts of the bible do you think are wrong?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Martin Andrews

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    people don't really understand languages!
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, that one certainly doesn't, but I suspect that may be because English may be his second language.
     
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    [​IMG]
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    40
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I doubt we could all agree on that either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    443
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree. We wouldn't agree. :D:D:D:D:D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    40
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is one of my previous posts in response to another member who has yet to answer:

    Certainly the blood of Christ is the basis of salvation, but no man is redeemed solely because Christ died for his sins. If that were true, preaching the gospel would be vain. Therefore, if these false prophets were bought with the precious blood of Christ, they were saved. If they were saved, they were ultimately lost. Your interpretation of 2 Peter 2:1, then, proves more than you wish to admit. Furthermore, ἀγοράζω is also used in contexts having nothing to do with the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. I invite you to consult your Greek lexicons on this issue. Also, you now have redeemed men being cast into the lake of fire according to your view of the atonement.

    This is really starting to get frustrating.

    upload_2017-3-29_20-15-38.png
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    40
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is far superior to the Martin Andrews Version (MAV).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...