Total Depravity vs Free Will

The two are one and the same. His foreknowledge predestines our salvation. See Ephesians 1 for more clarity.

Semi-pelagian is the term used for one who attempts to mix free-will and predestination in some form of interplay. It foregoes logic and supports a feeling over fact.

 

In John 3 the birth from above is compared to the birth here below.
Certain anthologies have been made by some.

However no one speaks of the conception of life and the the incubation of that life in the womb before the birth event.

Is there a conception of spiritual life and then an incubation of this life before the birth event from above?
Calling, conviction?

If I were to categorize these things I would say "calling" is the conception, conviction/reproval of sin the birth pangs before the birth event.

Just thinking.

HankD

 

This is complete nonsense. No where in the Bible says that because God "foreknows" all things, which He must as God, that He "predestines" them? If this is true, then God must also "predestines" our sins, which would make Him its AUTHOR. In which case He cannot ever send any sinner to hell, because all they were doing was what God had "predestined" in the first place. This is what Paul calls, "doctrine of demons"!

 

A sinner has to be convicted of their sins first by the Holy Spirit, Who shows them that they are hell-bound and in need of a Saviour, and points them to Jesus Christ for their salvation.

 

Well ALL sinners are not His sheep, it is only after they are converted that they become His sheep

 

You're repeating my statement, that foreknowledge and predestination are indistinguishable on this side of heaven. Anything new to add? We agree.

 

The answer is given us here:



John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


The natural man, while being ministered to by the Spirit of God, remains natural. During this ministry he is enlightened to truth and it is through this ministry that he "chooses." While this could be called "free will," it must be remembered that this does not change his condition of depravity and inability to seek after God.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, whereas the debate concerning Calvinism and the Arminian view imposes men reconciling themselves to God. This reverses the order taught us in Scripture.


God bless.

 

In large part I would agree, however, regeneration involves a process which imparts to the one regenerated something that was never there during that individual's lifetime (from conception), and that is the Life God imparts when He immerses that individual into Himself. It is Eternal Life because we become one with God, Who is Eternal Life.

So we cannot create a scenario in which the one regenerated is restored to a condition lost somewhere during his/her lifetime. The restorative quality goes back to what was lost in Adam, which was communion and relationship to and with God. Post Fall no man is conceived and born into this world in relationship with God, and when they are "born again" it is not a repeat of their first birth, but something totally new to their experience.


God bless.

 

I most certainly don't agree with Pelagianism and would call that a heresy.

Pelagianism
Pelagianism views humanity as basically good and morally unaffected by the Fall. It denies the imputation of Adam's sin, original sin, total depravity, and substitutionary atonement. It simultaneously views man as fundamentally good and in possession of libertarian free will. With regards to salvation, it teaches that man has the ability in and of himself (apart from divine aid) to obey God and earn eternal salvation. Pelagianism is overwhelmingly incompatible with the Bible and was historically opposed by Augustine (354-430), Bishop of Hippo, leading to its condemnation as a heresy at Council of Carthage in 418 A.D. These condemnations were summarily ratified at the Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431).

I haven't thought about this much recently but as I go back over information I've saved on the topic of Calvinism and Arminianism, I would also say I do not agree with the theology of Semi-Pelagianism as framed in the early church debates either. I believe that salvation is by grace through faith and is freely offered to all (general grace). I do not accept the concept of particular grace. So, in that regard I would fit more in the category of General rather than Particular Baptist. These days I prefer the general label of Christian. I don't think the differences between Baptists and Methodists or Presbyterians for example are important enough to not fellowship with them and to join with them in Christ's general command to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

 

While in a New Testament/Covenant sense "saved equates to born again," this is not true prior to the establishment of the New Covenant. The men and women of faith in the Old Testament were indeed "saved," meaning their eternal destiny was assured while they were alive (through faith), they were not, however...born again.

Salvation is the result of the determination of God, and this, usually, is according to the response of the individual to the revelation God provides them (though we do not credit them salvation through meritorious effort). A response is not always something controlled by those responding. One who is drowning, for instance, instinctively reaches out and seeks to grasp anything solid that will keep them above water. So too, with the response of men and women to the ministry of God in their lives, often we could see the response as inevitable. An example might be someone getting angry because another member disagreed with them. One could be on a mission to control their anger, yet a response of anger can still occur.

Regeneration does not occur until first the individual actually understands their condition, and being enlightened to their state, respond to God in faith. We must also keep in mind that being enlightened to the Way of Truth does not mean the response is always obedience to the Gospel:


2 Peter 2:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


The false teachers here (equivalent to the false prophets of the former Age/s) had been shown, and new the way of righteousness, and they turned from it. Again, the response is not always controlled, and rejection of the Gospel by far caters to man's proclivity to rebel against the truth God shows them.


God bless.

 

Most Christians are semi-pelagian in the US and are syncretists.

 

Total Spiritual Inability is fake doctrine not found in scripture. Both Calvinists and Arminians embrace the fake doctrine.

Scripture teaches natural men of flesh have limited spiritual ability in that they can understand spiritual milk, but not spiritual meat.

Until or unless a person understands this truth, their house is built on sand.

 

It largely depends on what kind of Baptist is in view in regards to the differences between them and Methodists and Presbyterians. As far as man being "basically good and morally unaffected by the Fall," I would have to address that from two perspectives. The first, we understand that man was created in the image and likeness of God, and in some respects we retain that distinction in Creation, however, Scripture makes it clear explicitly and implicitly that man will, despite his best efforts...fall short.

The reason is that the relationship man (Adam) had with God when he was created was lost, and because of our separation from God we have no recourse but to sin. Now while, again, I would agree that man has the capacity for good (on a human and earthly level), the sad fact is that nothing he does, no amount of righteousness he achieves...restores relationship with GOd that he might be restored to relationship with God.

Only through Christ's death in our place do we have the means of the penalty of the inevitable sin we will commit being paid, through which we are restored to relationship with God.

So I view Total Depravity as a valid Doctrine.


God bless.

 

So all you elect folks now have free will and are not totally depraved since we are fully regenerated, right?

 

Scripture for this, "We are born again now, but we are not entirely saved. We are saved positionally, from the penalty for sin, and we are being saved from the power of sin, but not yet saved from the presence of sin" WHERE in the Bible do we read "We are born again now, but we are not entirely saved"? this man-made RUBBISH!

 

Do you have your glorified resurrected body yet?

HankD

 

meaning what?