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Featured John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Mar 4, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Ephesians 2:1-2 Commentary | Precept Austin
     
    #121 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
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  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Precept Austin provides some good links to various commentators. In scrolling through the page, I found no reference to Genesis 3 as you used it. Shall I therefore take it that you are making it up as you go?
     
    #122 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  3. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    eph2..JPG

    "Guilt and condemnation" does not mean we cannot hear the Word of God.

    Edit:
    John 5
    25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    And to use this in a "non-calvie" way...Dead people do hear.

    Adam Heard
    Abraham heard
    Paul heard

    You don't have to be "Born again" to hear the Word of God. I'm done arguing.
     
    #123 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
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  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Indeed, the only voice a dead person can hear is the voice that raised him/her from the dead.
    "But, God made us alive..."

    Jon, you, once again, are attempting to move the goalposts in order to avoid the truth that God chooses whom he wills to make alive in Christ.

    I note that you have abandoned Genesis 3 and now create an argument around guilt and condemnation that I have never stated. Why is it so very hard for you to accept God's sovereignty over your salvation?
     
    #124 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
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  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Again, only God can speak to the dead and they hear. Satan is as spititually dead as they get and he could hear Him. However, look at Ezekiel in chapter 37. If he spoke to those piled up bones, they would not have heard him speaking.

    Whenever we witness to ppl, they can hear with their natural ears, but the inner man, unless revived by God, can not. He's dead. He is nekros. He is not drowning, but drowned. No matter how many flotation devices one tosses to them, they won't reach out and grab it. Dead ppl don't grab.
     
    #125 SovereignGrace, Apr 13, 2017
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  6. JonShaff

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    "Dead people don't grab"
    Dead people don't sin either...you're analogy is illogical, I'm not sure why you guys can't see that?

    Stop using the "dead people don't....." analogies, they do not equate to the spiritual truths of God's Word.
     
    #126 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Jon, you really struggle with spiritual death and literal death when you read the Bible. It's obvious in your inability to understand Ephesians 2.
     
    #127 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
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  8. SovereignGrace

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    Again Brother, nekros. The spirit within a man is dead. They are dead ppl walking. The bible is repleat with 'let him who hath an ear hear'. Why does it say that? Not everyone 'hath an ear' that hears.
     
    #128 SovereignGrace, Apr 13, 2017
  9. JonShaff

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    Nope, I understand Eph 2. You understand it to mean something different than me.
     
    #129 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Which shows that you don't understand it at all. You cannot conceive of spiritual death even though a person is physically alive. Your concocted reasoning is shown in your poor exegesis of Genesis 3.
     
    #130 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  11. JonShaff

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    OK you win.
     
    #131 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    There is no winning if you remain ignorant of God's word and fail to understand how God gives life to dead people.
     
    #132 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  13. JonShaff

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    Right...so people that don't believe like you have no idea how to love God and properly Give Him the Glory He deserves.
     
    #133 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Don't let anyone discourage you Jon.

    HankD
     
    #134 HankD, Apr 13, 2017
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  15. JonShaff

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    Thank you brother. I needed to hear that
     
    #135 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Nope. You are projecting in an attempt to avoid digging into God's word. Let God guide your understanding wrather than force God to bend to your opinion. When God says we were dead in our trespasses and sins...believe it. When God says He made us alive in Christ...believe it. Don't look for loopholes.
     
    #136 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  17. JonShaff

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    I do believe it.
     
    #137 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Then why have you been arguing against it for the last two days?
     
    #138 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  19. JonShaff

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    I haven't. I've been arguing against your extrapolation of the passage.
     
    #139 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  20. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    The only thing we have been talking about is God's work in causing those who are dead to be made alive. If you agree, why have you wasted everyone's time arguing against what you now say you agree with. Do you often flip flop like this?
     
    #140 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
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